Progression Or Regression ?

Now I read that 802's are banned at Dawlish in bad weather and forty odd year old HST's aren't. Or pacers. Mmmmmm.......... "Not progression." as my screen name says, "bringback309s" (AM9 I'm sure you will agree!)

xotGD said:

You've written the above as if it were an established fact, rather than just your opinion.

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No, I wrote of what I found. I regularly in the '60s and '70s on grubby BR trains where everything smelt of brakes dust, general dust from the floors, diesel fumes and tobacco smoke. Other wise the trains were physically free of rubbish. These days, most trains I ride in start out cleaned, but the later in the day it is the more spilt coffee, cups discarded newspapers and footmarks on seats are there. There is no continuous smell of brake dust or diesel fumes except when going slow through the fast bores of the Belsize tunnel, thanks to airconditioning. That is not opinion because I had (and do) experience it. I can't commment on how anybody else sees it except for those definitive comments made on this forum.

AM9 said:

No, I wrote of what I found. I regularly in the '60s and '70s on grubby BR trains where everything smelt of brakes dust, general dust from the floors, diesel fumes and tobacco smoke. Other wise the trains were physically free of rubbish. These days, most trains I ride in start out cleaned, but the later in the day it is the more spilt coffee, cups discarded newspapers and footmarks on seats are there. There is no continuous smell of brake dust or diesel fumes except when going slow through the fast bores of the Belsize tunnel, thanks to airconditioning. That is not opinion because I had (and do) experience it. I can't commment on how anybody else sees it except for those definitive comments made on this forum.

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I completely agree. I adored that slightly different smell of "the drain" when it ran 487's. But todays takeaway culture and general disrespect people have has caused the litter issue - and since the 321's trains have bins! I remember being wowed getitng on a 321 and seeing a litter bin, no such luxury in a 302! Yet trains do look like rubbish tips, as you say by the end of the day

Bringback309s said:

Now I read that 802's are banned at Dawlish in bad weather and forty odd year old HST's aren't. Or pacers. Mmmmmm.......... "Not progression." as my screen name says, "bringback309s" (AM9 I'm sure you will agree!)

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See my other posts. The heart say yes it would be nice to experience some of the extinct stock again, but the head says that even though for me the 309s were the cream of the GEML that one aspired to, comparing them with 360s (which I have recently travelled on from LST to CLT), I prefer the Desiros. They are quieter/smoother/faster off the mark and much cleaner - assuming they haven't had too many fly tippers on them that day.
I suspect that most normal travellers, i.e. not enthusiasts, would feel the same way.

Clearly there has been much progress, it just seems such a shame that the passenger experience seems to have been forgotten, especially with some of the recent DfT-spec 700s, 800s, etc.

Obvious things like:
- Seats that align with windows
- Comfy seats v ironing boards
- Deep overhead racks that fit an airline-size carry-on bag.
- TABLES (looking at you, class 700s).
- Restaurant cars, GWR buffet car
- Curtains v those annoying sliding blinds that close the whole window, not just your part of it
- etc.

xotGD said:

The seats in the 800s are the worst I've experienced. And they are supposed to be 'state of the art'. If I want a comfy seat, I have to visit the KWVR!

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Agreed 100%

Bringback309s said:

Now I read that 802's are banned at Dawlish in bad weather and forty odd year old HST's aren't. Or pacers. Mmmmmm.......... "Not progression." as my screen name says, "bringback309s" (AM9 I'm sure you will agree!)

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Then you might want to go back and read it again, because they aren't.

Darandio said:

Then you might want to go back and read it again, because they aren't.

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Thats good. Was surprised at the rumour...

Regularly remember a hotchpotch of EMU`s from Liverpool Street. 7 car 305 1/2 configs or 305/1 and 302. 8 car 302 and 305 /2. I thought that was normal until I discovered the rest of the network. Oh those exciting days. Although many DMU`s worked in multiple classes.

In some ways things improved, then regressed, eg

windows became less drafty, but got lower making it harder to see out (standing) and pillars got wider to spoil the view (sitting)

Seats became more fire resistant, but less comfortable

Noisy jointed track went, but sound absorbing soft surfaces also went, anyone remember carpet on lower walls and floors

Gained PA for occasional essential information, much better than waiting for guard to walk down shouting, but then it became automated and excessive

Lighting improved from a tungsten glow, but reading lights went, and then lighting became harsh, especially on commuter trains

Headrests on long distance trains used to have wings, so next passenger never slid or toppled onto you

Armrests lost their padding, (on the Southern and western could put the up and convert 6 seats to 8, lot more comfy than modern tip ups) but nowadays armrests between seats too narrow for both to use simultaneously