VT 390
Established Member
- Joined
- 7 Dec 2018
- Messages
- 1,366
Where can I find the details of this as I can't find any information on it?
-
Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
RMT DOO Dispute on West Midlands Trains
- Thread starter footprints
- Start date
- Status
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
footprints
Member
- Joined
- 28 Feb 2017
- Messages
- 219
Kite159
Veteran Member
Another strike about who gets to open the doors... Yawn 
Judging by the visibility of some of the guards you would think the network was DOO already (as some hide away in the back cab only popping out to do the doors)
Judging by the visibility of some of the guards you would think the network was DOO already (as some hide away in the back cab only popping out to do the doors)
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Another strike about who gets to open the doors... Yawn
Judging by the visibility of some of the guards you would think the network was DOO already (as some hide away in the back cab only popping out to do the doors)
South of Northampton I would say "most", not "some". To prove their value they really do need to be out among the passengers offering help and checking tickets on EVERY train. The difference in mentality between LNR and say Northern is marked.
VT 390
Established Member
- Joined
- 7 Dec 2018
- Messages
- 1,366
Thank you
I’m often amazed at how I can get from Liverpool to London and back with no ticket checks whatsoever. How does that happen, does the company not want to ensure revenue is collected? There’d be more money to pay staff and more profits! It’s really weird!
Did you buy a ticket and if so, what was your reason ?
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I suspect what the company is doing is roughly...
1. A lot of south WCML guards are too lazy to do revenue/customer service.
2. The TOC wants DOO.
3a. The TOC thinks if it makes them do their job and reverse (1), a strike is more likely.
3b. If the TOC makes the guards visible, passengers will be on the side of wanting to keep them.
WMR have recently sent out a document to guards telling them to basically not ask for someone's ticket in the first place if they thing they might kick up a fuss (using experience to profile) and avoid causing confrontation, delay and assaults. With that in mind it's hardly surprising that they aren't bothered.
The support from WMT management for Senior Conductors who are involved in incidents is shocking. I am aware of a few cases where conductors have been assaulted (some quite serious ones too) for trying to collect revenue/enforce first class and the company have hung them out to dry with sickness and disciplinary procedures being put against them as opposed to chain of care and welfare procedures.
The management really needs a massive shake up at this particular TOC
The management really needs a massive shake up at this particular TOC
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
With that I certainly do not disagree. TBH, I think the franchise should be terminated and vested in the operator of last resort instead, though to be fair LNER do still (as evidenced on other threads) misbehave. It's been an utter s***show from day one, and as things have progressed it has got worse and worse with no sign of improvement.
syorksdeano
Member
- Joined
- 7 Jan 2011
- Messages
- 729
I travel from Sheffield to Walsall every week for the past year and I honestly can't say how many times my ticket has been checked between Birmingham and Walsall, but at a guess I would say its between 0 and 2
And the compensation claims from people who book those, and then are left behind, unable to board the train?
Silverlinky
Member
- Joined
- 3 Feb 2012
- Messages
- 683
The TOC does not want DOO.....the TOC wants DCO. The TOC is committed to having DCO as per the original franchise bid and spec.
There was an explicit guarantee given that nobody would lose their jobs over this. That was given for the length of the current franchise and the next one should Abellio keep it/win it again.
New rolling stock has been ordered, DCO ready, plans were put in place to convert existing stock to DCO operation.
There will always be a second person on the train.
All this was known two years ago!
The issue is about what that second person does, what role they carry out and whether they are safety critical.
DOO is Driver Only Operation, DCO is Driver Controlled Operation.
DOO = 1 person on the train, DCO = 2 persons on the train.
The RMT have had recent success in keeping the guard involved in some of the process of door operation (even if its Driver opens, guard closes) on other TOCS recently.......and now they want the same at WMT.
VT 390
Established Member
- Joined
- 7 Dec 2018
- Messages
- 1,366
Is there a good reason why WMT would not want/allow the guard to do this?
Silverlinky
Member
- Joined
- 3 Feb 2012
- Messages
- 683
Because with the stock thats coming there will be nowhere for them to do this from.....no intermediate door controls, no "put a key in the back cab and work them from there" controls.
Drivers desk open, door panels live only in the drivers cab.
Goldfish62
Established Member
- Joined
- 14 Feb 2010
- Messages
- 10,029
Are you sure about that? Apart from ScotRail and GWR I can't think of any.
Funny how these strikes are always on a Saturday. A day they don't want to work anyway and given the TOC's staff shortage can probably make the overtime up the rest of the week, while freeing up their social calendar to get tanked up on a Friday night/Saturday in the Christmas season.
Last edited:
Silverlinky
Member
- Joined
- 3 Feb 2012
- Messages
- 683
Merseyrail....a couple of weeks ago. https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/rmt-secures-major-breakthrough-on-merseyrail-guards-dispute/
I thought they'd got some where with SWT and Northern too?
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
I thought it was Sundays they did not want to work.
Not quite, there's some logic. Keep the regulars happy in the week and by striking on a Saturday your hitting the company squarely in the pocket and it forces the managers to work the Saturday after working the weekdays.
Silverlinky
Member
- Joined
- 3 Feb 2012
- Messages
- 683
Which managers? Certainly not the ones making the decisions! I don't know about forcing either...can you force compulsory overtime? I believe managers are in unions too!
Wouldn't that be logical? In the week managers could cover thereby lessening the effects, but at the weekends I doubt it.
No idea what contracts say though, so I could be wrong!
Unfortunately many TOCs now seem to want lower/ middle ranked managers who can follow instructions rather than manage. These same people are easily bullied into working strike days. With (usually verbal and on a one to one basis vailed threats about no promotions etc). Managers are usually in the least secure jobs in the rail industry. They can be easily got rid of in restructures if they don't tow the line.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Won't happen. Last time VT coped fine albeit with some standees.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
That's their choice to order them like that.
craigybagel
Established Member
- Joined
- 25 Oct 2012
- Messages
- 5,079
The strikes at Northern were a lot more successful when they moved to being a Saturday only thing. The regular commuters could keep on going to work, and instead of the managers having a nice day out of the office playing trains if they wanted to strike break they had to do it on their own time. Northern found their ability to cover trains with alternative traincrew (to put it politely) got a lot worse when the strikes moved to Saturdays.
I think it's fair to say any disputes in the future that are likely to be long lasting will involve Saturday strikes.
I think it's fair to say any disputes in the future that are likely to be long lasting will involve Saturday strikes.
Goldfish62
Established Member
- Joined
- 14 Feb 2010
- Messages
- 10,029
Ah right, didn't know that. SWR are still insisting that the driver closes the doors. No idea where the dispute is.
Undiscovered
Member
- Joined
- 28 Jan 2013
- Messages
- 412
Yup, and as soon you avoid asking one person, then that's the whole carriage ruled out.
I try to be even with everyone, but when you arrive into mainline stations at peak times, to find the barriers unmanned, you really do wonder why you bother.
As most guards know, a Saturday night, last train back, full and standing with football supporters, Christmas parties, and all the others is a very different kettle of fish to a nice, quiet Wednesday lunchtime pootle up the line.
Whatever happens, and whoever works the trains, I Hope everyone gets home safely.
Absolute nonsense! I suspect the reason they've chosen Saturday to walk out is for a number of reasons. Firstly, the antisocial behaviour onboard late Saturday services across the network in the run up to Christmas may make management wake up and realise the worth of the conductors onboard.
Secondly as has been mentioned, upsetting season ticket holders is not what the RMT wish to achieve. The leisure market is where the TOC make a significant revenue loss from strikes.
- Status