Agent_Squash
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'West Coast' with the tagline 'Best Coast'?
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First Trenitalia (Avanti!) WCML branding, naming and livery
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61653 HTAFC
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Yuck!
I'd avoid all mention of coast, as the route only lives up to the name for a few hundred yards at Hest Bank.
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
Yuck!
I'd avoid all mention of coast, as the route only lives up to the name for a few hundred yards at Hest Bank.
And along much of the North Wales coast from Flint to Holyhead - that's on the ICWC route too.
You get a glimpse of the sea approaching Blackpool North also.
Somewhere south of Lockerbie you can see the Solway Firth with the Lakeland fells beyond.
61653 HTAFC
Veteran Member
The North Wales coast, as the name suggests, points North... then again the existence of Wales means England doesn't have much of a West coast, but even if Wales wasn't there the WCML would be a long way from its eponymous coast for the first 1/3 of its length.
I'd go for a name like LMLSR (London, Midland, Lancashire and Scottish Railway)... that should put a cat amongst the pigeons!
thealm
Member
When you start putting ands into a train company name you know that this heritage this heritage thing has gone to far. I would be perfectly fine with Avanti.
If you want to be pedantic, it’s also fairly close to the coast at Blackpool too. I’m sure they will come up with something which won’t outrage the interested parties who are involved, regardless of whether it’s served by one a day, one an hour or three an hour. We’re supposed to be here to serve the public, not just those who turn up in large numbers. That’s our raisin d’etre.
61653 HTAFC
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"Avanti" sounds more like a deluxe version of a feminine hygiene product than a train company!
MarkWiles
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Whilst there has been a trend towards "retro" names, like Southern, GWR, LNWR and LNER, there has also been a trend towards non-historic but more geographical naming, such as Northern, and EMR. Then there's the meaningless Greater Anglia which whilst technically correct in that it is bigger than (East) Anglia including some counties which don't normally get described as East Anglia, is frankly a dead haddock when it comes to resonance with the public, although probably a bit better than "One" ever could be.
So, I suspect it could go any way, but not necessarily a shoo-in for LMS. Personally I'd prefer a name without "London" in it and I suspect there could be a few supporters of greater devolution for the Midlands and North who would prefer something less London-centric as well.
So, I suspect it could go any way, but not necessarily a shoo-in for LMS. Personally I'd prefer a name without "London" in it and I suspect there could be a few supporters of greater devolution for the Midlands and North who would prefer something less London-centric as well.
cactustwirly
Established Member
What! The whole point of the franchise is to link London with the West Mids and North West
185
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newWCMLwatcher
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Hi everyone, hope you're all doing well! Long time lurker itching to post. I'm hoping hoping it's going to be LMS as a nod to the past but building on the future. I live in Lancashire near Preston so the name doesn't really capture my location but I've always felt it was London as the hub (most originating or terminating services) with Midlands being the midlands of the UK (not the black country) but the notional central part of the WCML - Leyland/Preston, then on to Scotland.
I do think some people forget London is in the South-East, so by calling it West Coast by the route it takes doesn't really take into account the biggest and most popular destination on the line.
On the contrary (and I argue with myself here) - another name I'd support would be West Railway or Western Railway (or Western Trains). It's simple and describes clearly the route. Although, like I said London is in the South East, but it captures the majority of the route.
I think we're going to end up with something a little more polished and branded though, so my expectation goes to Avanti Trains if we're expecting one or the other. Of the two, I'd hope for LMS, purely for the historic reasons and I like it - that's my personal choice. But we have to move forward, so I wish the new franchise well under whatever name it's going to be, and I hope it thrives. I'll be sad to see Virgin go, as it's been a big name in the rail industry since I became interested as a kid. But things move on and even faster on the railways! I didn't understand Franchising as a kid when I first went spotting, so I've just appreciated what we had. Virgin has always been a big name to me, and now I know things must change, I'm looking back fondly.
I do think some people forget London is in the South-East, so by calling it West Coast by the route it takes doesn't really take into account the biggest and most popular destination on the line.
On the contrary (and I argue with myself here) - another name I'd support would be West Railway or Western Railway (or Western Trains). It's simple and describes clearly the route. Although, like I said London is in the South East, but it captures the majority of the route.
I think we're going to end up with something a little more polished and branded though, so my expectation goes to Avanti Trains if we're expecting one or the other. Of the two, I'd hope for LMS, purely for the historic reasons and I like it - that's my personal choice. But we have to move forward, so I wish the new franchise well under whatever name it's going to be, and I hope it thrives. I'll be sad to see Virgin go, as it's been a big name in the rail industry since I became interested as a kid. But things move on and even faster on the railways! I didn't understand Franchising as a kid when I first went spotting, so I've just appreciated what we had. Virgin has always been a big name to me, and now I know things must change, I'm looking back fondly.
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No, it's not. The franchise is also the only provider of train services on some routes, including literally any journey that involves Preston/Wigan (or north of) to Warrington/Crewe (or south of). Fast services to and from London are great, if that's where you want to go, but the West Coast franchise is about much, much more than only trains to and from London.
Bletchleyite
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An 11 car Pendolino would rod one almightily big drain.
newWCMLwatcher
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transmanche
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Hmm, I don't know what percentage of journeys on ICWC start or finish in London, but LNER say that 60% of journeys on ICEC start or finish in London.
Yes, I know the ICWC franchise includes West Midlands-Scotland services which don't really have an equivalent on ICEC. But I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of journeys on ICWC are to/from London.
depends in the route. I wouldn’t necessarily agree on Brum-Londons for the local commuters to International and especially Cov. You also get a lot at Wigan heading north as it’s still the main interchange point from Liverpool heading north for now, and Preston heading North too. A lot also get out at Chester on North Wales originating services.
ashkeba
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It is a toaster: see https://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/house...4-slice-toaster-matte-black-10182876-pdt.html
Or a potential RRB partner http://www.avanticoachholidays.co.uk
BeardedGeezer
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I was told in a meeting the other day that First will be releasing brand name/info sometime during week commencing the 25th of November
Chiltern006
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I've heard Avanti will be the brand name, something like AvantiRail or Avanti Trains
TT-ONR-NRN
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Virgin Trains staff keep telling me they’ve been told Avanti by their bosses.
61653 HTAFC
Veteran Member
The Azuma name on LNER has led people to think that that's the name of the company. The average person doesn't need or want to know what sort of train they're on, and won't know that's what that word means anyway. It just confuses people and leads to "branding fatigue".
Speed43125
Member
indeed, Given that their entire fleet is going to be 80x anyway, I fail to see a point in having a brand name for a new product that isn't very revolutionary. With pendos and VT it worked as it was a huge upgrade as these were the first real new trains in decades and decades.
I can't see FT or indeed LNER having a similar success with these names going forwards.
RealTrains07
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Plus virigin have more than 1 type of train so having names for them makes sense
RealTrains07
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Bit long and confusing, most people only want where the train stops and the company, maybe through in a brand name like Pendolino but not much more.
EMR shows you can't just stick railway on the end and have an older style logo to make people like the brand more, people have heard of GWR, nobody has heard of EMR before because it never existed.
TT-ONR-NRN
Established Member
I have been told by the fifth guard this week that it’s Avanti Trains btw... all the staff hate it.
Apart from the dirt it actually looks pretty cool without the branding...
61653 HTAFC
Veteran Member
Why does it?
My parents (boomers and occasional rail users) were coming back from London yesterday, and they were confused by the announcements for "LNER Azuma" services. Northern don't advertise the "1212 Northern Pacer service to Sheffield", and people generally don't care much what the train is called. They need to know if they're boarding the right train, and if it has a multitude of names announced it causes people to worry they're on the wrong train.
Keep it simple, ffs!
zn1
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why not just call the company taking over from virgin west coast -" this train goes to ltd . " and lob the fleet in black and maroon ...
Agree with this – anyone looking at the Class 80x livery on LNER would be forgiven for thinking they were getting a train with a company called "Azuma".
Either don't have a name, or have consistent train categories like IC, RE, L etc in continental Europe
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