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Northern Class 195: Construction/Introduction Updates

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Deerfold

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Sorry I missed this, I've been away for a few days. Interesting comments from other posters re the name Caldervale too. I had never thought of the Vale of York portmanteau, it may be the explanation although the fact that York and Selby line trains were covered in another Metro timetable makes me slightly sceptical.

If you go back far enough into the 80s they were in the same timetable. Line 12 Brown A7 timetables. The York and Selby times were later separated out into a Dark Blue timetable.
 

Llama

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The Leeds to Ellesmere Port was cancelled due to lack of driver but I’m not sure what unit that would have been.
That train ran but started from Manchester Victoria. It was a three car 195, 103 iirc.
 

Llama

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NH716 diagram (0617 Chester-Leeds etc) should be 195107 tomorrow.
 

mrcaa

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That train ran but started from Manchester Victoria. It was a three car 195, 103 iirc.
Yeah I spotted that when I’d already gone to Piccadilly. I have to check before I leave the office now so I can head to the right station if it’s not running. I guess it was over 15 minutes late anyway so good that I did. I guess it never went to Leeds at all if it was at Victoria?
 

Llama

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No, it came in from Leeds off 2M22 about 1800 and then got stabled in the turnback siding at Victoria to come out for 1D78.

2E01 (0545 Manchester Victoria to Leeds) will be 195106.
 

Stew27005

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Morning all I spent a few hours at Victoria and Piccadilly on Tuesday and Wednesday evening and noted the following in service:
107
118
115
110
001 + 007
104
125
107
002
123
111
Many more pacer sightings
 

Llama

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Yes three seconds. Must admit I've not spotted the 'unadvertedly', I won't be able to unsee it now.
 

Whisky Papa

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If you go back far enough into the 80s they were in the same timetable. Line 12 Brown A7 timetables. The York and Selby times were later separated out into a Dark Blue timetable.

Thanks for that, it is going beyond my time using the line I think. The only Metro Caldervale timetable I have left is one from the Summit Tunnel closure in 1985, which only goes as far east as Leeds. I do recall that in the late 80's and early 90's trains generally ran through from Todmorden to York or even Scarborough, but that is for another thread.

I have made only one short journey on a 195 since their introduction on the line, in the centre car of 195103 on a CTR-LDS that was running 20 mins late one evening. I was reasonably impressed on the whole but rather disappointed by the quite loud noises from the bogie, even on plain line. I would however echo one comment somewhere upthread about the higher proportion of tables not being popoular with solo commuters - I certainly never looked to sit at a table when I was commuting, although I appreciate some commuters do travel in pairs or even larger groups.
 

Bletchleyite

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The English on a number of bits of signage is poor, FWIW. Though I do very much approve of the German style "split passcom" i.e. having a separate call for aid and "stop the train now as I think it's derailed or there's a large tree through the window" button.

I've been on a couple this weekend, and the tables layout may not be favoured by commuters but does work very well for leisure travellers. Commuters benefit by the wide aisles and standbacks meaning you can cram on more standees and standing is more comfortable than say a 15x.

While I do think there are many faults, I must admit they are growing on me.

I'd make a couple of changes fairly quickly, though - like the Thameslink 700s fit a luggage rack in "opposite" standbacks (as these seem mostly to be used for luggage and not standing), and remove the tip-ups from the bike space as people choose to sit there even where there are other seats spare preventing its use for bikes.
 

js1000

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I'd make a couple of changes fairly quickly, though - like the Thameslink 700s fit a luggage rack in "opposite" standbacks (as these seem mostly to be used for luggage and not standing), and remove the tip-ups from the bike space as people choose to sit there even where there are other seats spare preventing its use for bikes.
I'm a big fan of the "flexi-space" adjacent to the doors with the tip up seats that also double up as storage spaces for luggage. They're actually big enough to accommodate a small to medium sized pram amd have seen it used as such. I personally dislike fixed luggage racks as they too often take up much needed space at peak time when no luggage is on-board.

I think the redeeming feature of the 195/331s is the spaciousness. Even when it's full it's a lot more pleasant standing near the doors than being crammed on a hot, noisy 150 or 319 let's say. I prefer the 2+2 seating also - 3+2 just adds to cramped atmosphere.
 
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Bletchleyite

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The problem with tip-up seats is that some people prefer to sit there and won't move when asked to do so because of e.g. a bicycle or luggage which needs to go there. I therefore think it would be best to remove all of them wherever they exist.
 

Killingworth

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The problem with tip-up seats is that some people prefer to sit there and won't move when asked to do so because of e.g. a bicycle or luggage which needs to go there. I therefore think it would be best to remove all of them wherever they exist.

I tend to agree.

The refurbished 150s on the Hope Valley line are an improvement, for most. The Saturday morning train pictured below was rammed full, with 3 girls sitting in the tip up seats when a single cyclist arrived and stood in the centre of the train. At the last minute two more bikes arrived, forcing their way into the train together with two large panniers apiece and made it clear they expected the girls to shift, which they did. The single cyclist was by this time completely across the door to the rear cab so the guard was unable to get through into the train. None of the bikes were strapped in.

Yes, bikes and luggage are a difficulty. In this case the large panniers had been removed before Totley Tunnel. I don't know where they left the train but suspect it took a minute or two more than booked.WP_20190525_09_25_17_Pro.jpg
 

js1000

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The problem with tip-up seats is that some people prefer to sit there and won't move when asked to do so because of e.g. a bicycle or luggage which needs to go there. I therefore think it would be best to remove all of them wherever they exist.
Personally I don't think prioritising bikes and luggage over paying passengers is in any way preferable.
 

Killingworth

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Personally I don't think prioritising bikes and luggage over paying passengers is in any way preferable.

Maybe we need to go back 50 years and start charging again for bikes, prams and dogs? And large items of luggage too, with reintroduction of luggage in advance? That would cause storms of protest, the same as charging £5 to reserve a seat!
 

a_c_skinner

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Personally I don't think prioritising bikes and luggage over paying passengers is in any way preferable.

What do you do, put a skip on each platform so they can be left behind? What is needed is enough space and getting away from the subliminal idea which pervades the railway that we'd run better were it not for the passengers.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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I did notice on a recent journey that the display board and associated announcements were not synchronised, as passing through Slade Lane junction heading towards Manchester Piccadilly on a Barrow-in-Furness service, the information suddenly stated "the next station would be East Didsbury". However, the fault must have been noted, as by the time the train arrived at Manchester Piccadilly, that information system had been shut down.
 

Bletchleyite

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I did notice on a recent journey that the display board and associated announcements were not synchronised, as passing through Slade Lane junction heading towards Manchester Piccadilly on a Barrow-in-Furness service, the information suddenly stated "the next station would be East Didsbury". However, the fault must have been noted, as by the time the train arrived at Manchester Piccadilly, that information system had been shut down.

I was on a Barrow-Manchester 195 yesterday and the same thing happened - we got "This is Lancaster" about half way to Preston, and so on. You'd think that announcement would be trigged by the door release.

The guard also came up with some kind of diatribe about "the brand spanking new Toys R Us fancy electronic thingywhatsit not working again", or somesuch, which brought a few giggles.
 

Bovverboy

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What do you do, put a skip on each platform so they can be left behind? What is needed is enough space and getting away from the subliminal idea which pervades the railway that we'd run better were it not for the passengers.

Well, js1000 certainly wasn't suggesting that the railway would run better but for passengers, quite the contrary, he was suggesting that they don't get sufficient priority.
I'm all in favour of people being able to take their bikes by train, but do find something a little incongruous about carrying that bike for free, when it takes up the space of at least one passenger, and probably more.
As to luggage, people have become accustomed to travelling with it, and it's something they don't do every day, they may travel to work by train five days per week, and travel with luggage only occasionally, you never know.
I was amazed to discover that reservations were free. I've never reserved a seat on a British train, but probably would do now if travelling any great distance, such as Manchester - London. I've travelled within France by TGV, with compulsory reservations, and didn't resent having to pay. I was more perturbed, on a French train, at having to pay £1.50 for a can of Coke - as long ago as 1987!
 

Killingworth

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Well, js1000 certainly wasn't suggesting that the railway would run better but for passengers, quite the contrary, he was suggesting that they don't get sufficient priority.
I'm all in favour of people being able to take their bikes by train, but do find something a little incongruous about carrying that bike for free, when it takes up the space of at least one passenger, and probably more.
As to luggage, people have become accustomed to travelling with it, and it's something they don't do every day, they may travel to work by train five days per week, and travel with luggage only occasionally, you never know.
I was amazed to discover that reservations were free. I've never reserved a seat on a British train, but probably would do now if travelling any great distance, such as Manchester - London. I've travelled within France by TGV, with compulsory reservations, and didn't resent having to pay. I was more perturbed, on a French train, at having to pay £1.50 for a can of Coke - as long ago as 1987!

Yes, the two bikes in my previous picture both took up as much space as at least two people,possibly 3 or 4! I'm sure the reintroduction of bicycle fares would be resisted, but inflation linking this 1/3 (6.5p) ticket from 1937 to today might make a price of almost £5! That's still cheap for the amount of floor space taken.


Tickets.jpg
 

EE Andy b1

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While travelling North through Stafford on the West Coast today about 1200, passed under the M6 motorway and stuck in heavy traffic heading North were 2 driving vehicles of a Class 195.
Anyone any idea which set this would be?
 
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