Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Is it what is on the 195/331s? Doesn't work there either.
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Should TrainFX be considered an acceptable PIS solution?
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Is it what is on the 195/331s? Doesn't work there either.
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Vivarail 230s?
Sam
The one used originally on ScotRail 156s was by far the best quality seen on the rail network in the UK, before it was needlessly changed!
craigybagel
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I've no idea what it fitted to 195/331s, but having read this comment:
I'm assuming it's not, as TrainFX normally has a simple control panel fitted adjacent to the PA handset in the cab that a guard should be able to access.
You could argue that entire train is an aftermarket refit! Do they use TrainFX? It looked to me like they'd merely repurposed the system London Underground fitted when they refurbished them a few years back, but I've not actually traveled on one yet (the one time I tried it failed and was replaced by a bus!) so I can't really comment.
py_megapixel
Established Member
That would make sense, but it's still a problem!
I appreciate that passenger information is a very complex issue which I don't know as much about as some, but the fact that so many other passenger information systems seem to work so much more of the time than the TrainFX ones do surely must be a sign that something is wrong?
Whatever the nature of the issue, it is causing what will soon be a legally-required system which is very important to many groups of passengers to be regularly switched off.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
The LNR ones have the same basic (and flickery) orange LED system that is fitted to the LNR 319s, not sure if this is TrainFX or not but it is also unreliable.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I would argue that the penalty for having any PRM required facility unavailable (toilet included) should be hefty but not higher than the penalty for outright cancellation - that would get them sorting the issue out. The attitude of "if the wheels turn it'll do" is unacceptable.
TrainFX is nothing to do with guards at Northern. It is the drivers responsibility as they received a payment for destinations and announcements years ago. Every time they try and foist a booklet on me or send an email with the codes on I bin/delete it.
craigybagel
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Probably TrainFX then, pretty sure the 319s had that fitted when they were still on Thameslink
Not sure why they bother with a booklet; at our place the codes are on diagram you pick up each day, much easier.
samuelmorris
Established Member
Apart from the bug when displaying too much text and the long gap in the data being fed to the display, which only seems to affect SWR, haven't see it on GA's 360s. Seems like a quality product, very seldom see the displays off or with any dead pixels.
causton
Established Member
I heard from another Northern guard that they got the PIS codes removed from the guards' diagrams as the drivers are responsible. Maybe it is an East-West thing!
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Yeah, they have quirks (e.g. the gap you get in a very long set of calling points) but on the LNR 350s they are near 100% reliable.
In the end, buy cheap buy twice.
samuelmorris
Established Member
Or in GA's case, buy cheap then have to buy the whole factory so you can make more when the supplier goes bust...
applepie2100
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The TrainFX passenger saloon displays fitted to the ScotRail 156's seem to be of the cheapest and poorest quality imaginable. They flicker badly and seem to vary in brightness from unit to unit which suggests there is no real quality control in their production. The unit end displays are practically impossible to read when stood on the platform until the unit is about five feet from you and they also suffer with the flickering issue. There have been many occasions I've traveled on a unit where the system has either been fully deactivated or has been displaying "ScotRail" on the exterior and "Welcome aboard this ScotRail service" on the interior.
As I've said in other threads the whole system smacks of being cheap, nasty, poorly engineered and rock bottom quality. It may be PRM-TSI compliant when it actually works but there is a bit of a lottery as to whether it does. Going by the comments from our Northern friends it sounds like it works even more poorly down there than it does up here!
As I've said in other threads the whole system smacks of being cheap, nasty, poorly engineered and rock bottom quality. It may be PRM-TSI compliant when it actually works but there is a bit of a lottery as to whether it does. Going by the comments from our Northern friends it sounds like it works even more poorly down there than it does up here!
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Personally, I just don't get why a mandatory piece of equipment that is not working is considered compliant. If there is an item required by PRM TSI that is not working, that unit needs to be considered non-compliant.
Believe it or not, the exterior screens can be witnessed displaying the latter as well…
The screens are of shocking quality - the system used in the 156s previously was *very* readable, but, the TrainFX stuff is appallingly bad.
when SWT received lots of 158 vehicles from TPE, they retrofitted a ‘desiro mk2’ pis system, and also fitted it to their 455 and later 456 fleet...
Call me naive, but why couldn’t they use the same system?
edit: just seen the above posts about the same system, will teach me to reply after only reading page 1!
Call me naive, but why couldn’t they use the same system?
edit: just seen the above posts about the same system, will teach me to reply after only reading page 1!
causton
Established Member
I was just about to say, the other day I passed Bletchley Carriage Sidings to see "Welcome aboard this London Northwestern Railway service" scrolling on a 319's destination screen on the outside (or at least a proportion of it - enough for me to work out the full message!)
The Axion system fitted to SWT stock at refurb was very reliable. The ‘bug’ resulting in the gaps in the long messages is a product of lack of memory. The inbuilt systems in Desiro units have no ability to add additional memory, whereas the retrofits to ex BR stock had some extra oomph fitted to avoid.
The only real downside to the system as built into Desiro units is the complexity. There is an indirect link to the TMS which means to upgrade or replace the PIS you would need to provide a new TMS. This means you end up with the odd situation of half old, half new systems as seen on the 185 refresh and eventually the 350 when they get it working.
They may have figured out how to do it since I was last close to the projects, though the 185 halfway house isn’t a bad overall solution.
The only real downside to the system as built into Desiro units is the complexity. There is an indirect link to the TMS which means to upgrade or replace the PIS you would need to provide a new TMS. This means you end up with the odd situation of half old, half new systems as seen on the 185 refresh and eventually the 350 when they get it working.
They may have figured out how to do it since I was last close to the projects, though the 185 halfway house isn’t a bad overall solution.
The thing about TrainFX is that the idea is sound, the market clearly there, and as it’s been pulled together by people who designed and engineered the rolling stock originally, it should work! I half wonder if the mixed results in deployment is a reflection of the quality of the original engineering and maintenance on the units.
They also have some higher end quality stuff, but TOCs and ROSCOs all seem to have gone with the cheapest solution, unsurprisingly.
They also have some higher end quality stuff, but TOCs and ROSCOs all seem to have gone with the cheapest solution, unsurprisingly.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
But there really isn't any excuse for the cheapest solution not to work properly. That's quite different from it being basic.
For example, I'm quite happy to stay in an Ibis Budget hotel - the room is basic and whitewashed but it is cleaned properly. I'm not happy to stay in a similarly priced cheap hotel that might have a better bed (say) but be dirty or have broken items in the room as so often is the case.
Fincra5
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I would say my only gripe with the TrainFX system on 313s, is the lack of flexibility. Yes you can edit a stopping pattern, one station at a time (selecting the Skip Station menu each time per station) but only once the PIS is active.
They don't seem to be updated very often or perhaps have a limited Database. All the new codes on diagrams do not work on 313s; even though they're there on the Schedule Card.
They don't seem to be updated very often or perhaps have a limited Database. All the new codes on diagrams do not work on 313s; even though they're there on the Schedule Card.
What does Merseyrail have fitted on their 507/508 stock because that must of been retrofitted 10 years ago and always seems to work? I have only noticed a few times that the PIS system has stopped working but it’s normally fixed when the train reaches the next station.
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Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I think it's the same as the one fitted to newer Southern Electrostars, though I don't know precisely what it is.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
With Internet access just about everywhere these days, I'm surprised none of them work with something a bit like RTT rather than faffing about with codes, i.e. key in the origin, destination and departure time and it'll find the diagram for you.
applepie2100
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It only takes a quick look at the standard of passenger information systems on even some of the older European stock for us to realise that we are a generation or two behind.
Taking German DB Class 442 units as an example they have high quality exterior dot matrix displays on the front and side, the same high quality interior dot matrix displays and then the addition of high resolution TFT panels for the display of among other things the calling pattern, realtime information about delays, realtime departure information for the next station and lots of other very useful information. The interior dot matrix displays also show the side at which the doors will open and most importantly none of the displays are used for showing superfluous and rambling information about your bags, personal belongings, calling the BTP etc. They also have clear, concise and audible announcements which provide only the information needed by the passenger.
When you compare these systems to the rubbish provided by the likes of TrainFX it shows just how much work we have to do on information provision.
py_megapixel
Established Member
Exactly. Compare
"Nächste halt: Magdeburg Hauptbahnhof. Diese Zugfahrt endet hier. Bitte in Fahrtrichtung links austeigen"
to
"We will shortly be arriving at Crewe, where this service terminates. If you're leaving the train here, mind the gap between the train and platform edge, and please remain vigilant: if you see anything suspicious, please tell a member of staff or the British Transport Police via text on 61016. Customers are reminded to retain all tickets as barriers may be in use."
(The German roughly translates to "Next stop: Magdeburg Main. This journey ends here. Please alight to the left as you face the direction of travel.)
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