61653 HTAFC
Veteran Member
Surely it would make sense to stick with the VP185s, as I'd assume all EMR fitters will be well-versed on them as opposed to the MTUs which they've only ever had a handful of.
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New trains for East Midlands Franchise
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samuelmorris
Established Member
That may well be so, but tell that to the passengers struggling to breathe from the black clouds that come out of them that aren't present on MTU power cars :P Not all that important in terms of actual green credentials, but certainly not a great image.
WesternLancer
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EMT / EMR are good at filling 1st as they have the price right on the Advance 1st tickets.
cactustwirly
Established Member
If they're that good, then how come first class is empty every time I see it.
They shouldn't rely on advance 1st to fill it up, especially when standard class is rammed full
hexagon789
Veteran Member
And I imagine it makes more money as well. As long as they can fill it, I don't see a problem.
Helvellyn
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Exactly. Plus Neville Hill will have all the spares. If this is a stop-gap measure until December 2020 then it benefits both ROSCOs who keep some assets on lease. Porterbrook also avoid having to do compliance work to HST trailers that realistically have twelve months worth of work and Angel get to to sweat their trailers a bit longer.
My hunch is that it will just be 2+8 as now. The only question would be whether the ex-GC sets get included in the mash-up, e.g. the Porterbrook power cars come back from LNER to standardise the power car fleet and work with ex-LNER trailers (assuming LNER release all sets).
cactustwirly
Established Member
NL have spares for MTUs as well, as they do the heavy exams on the Angel fleet.
The ex GC sets are from a different RoSCo and their diagrams are limited and can easily be replaced by the 180s
WesternLancer
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well, obv I don't know which part of the route you are looking at it on, or what time of day - but when I'm on advance 1st I'm usually in a coach with most if not all seats taken (Leicester and south thereof). It's not much more £ than std on many occasions, so easy to sell a seat to me on that basis as I'll trade up.
ashkeba
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Voyagers often don't. Hot poo air. I thought 222s shared this feature?Technically every coach in every train carries fresh air.
InTheEastMids
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They don't.
InTheEastMids
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Useful post on the LNER HST withdrawal thread on this, saying there are minor differences between the way some systems work between LNER and EMR fleets, that EMR power cars would need modifications to be fully compatible with LNER carriages. This would explain why EMR might dump their current power cars.
samuelmorris
Established Member
They do to a lesser extent, but most trains have a distinct odour near the toilets, I wouldn't describe it as excessive on 222s, whereas I would on 220/221s.
The 222s smell far worse as you alight them, where exhaust and "hot poo air" create quite the distinctive aroma.
It makes a lot of sense to be using the LNER HSTs since they're both on Neville Hill - is there some operational capacity gained from the Azuma introduction? Do they stable there?
It makes a lot of sense to be using the LNER HSTs since they're both on Neville Hill - is there some operational capacity gained from the Azuma introduction? Do they stable there?
raetiamann
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EMR has greatly increased prices on advanced first tickets, so that may well increase the pressure on standard seating.
ChrisC
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The cheapest advance first class tickets are still available on the Nottingham HST services but only now for a handful of off peak trains around midday. The price hasn’t risen but they are not so readily available. You have to book well in advance to get them and they are only available on about 3 trains in each direction. I always use these trains in First when I travel down to London for a few days away as they are just at the right time of day for checking in and out of hotels. I have usually found first very busy with people taking advantage of this.
Jozhua
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Any update on the flavour of AT-300 on EMR?
I don't get why if more accessibility compatible HSTs have been an option why they even considered 180's? Do they like watching the world burn!
We'll probably live in a world where functional trains like 222's get scrapped before 180's that require passengers to take turns to get out and push!
I don't get why if more accessibility compatible HSTs have been an option why they even considered 180's? Do they like watching the world burn!
We'll probably live in a world where functional trains like 222's get scrapped before 180's that require passengers to take turns to get out and push!
cactustwirly
Established Member
Not an 802... A more customised version with 23m coaches
Because the HSTs aren't fully compliant and 180s are...
Jozhua
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Ahh, I thought these LNER ones were fully acessable, guessing they're just more compliant in relation to EMR, but still not fully.
Maybe they should add HST power cars to each end of a 180
Murray J
Member
Aren't they meant to be operating in 5 car formations? Because the normal 800s are 26m and I don't think 5 cars will be enough for services on the MML.
Jozhua
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Yeah 5x23m will probably not be enough, but they're supposed to run as 10 car formations.
There have been many debates, but the conclusion is with more efficient diagramming due to a more uniform fleet, most services will be 10 carriages!
krus_aragon
Established Member
5 and 10-car formations. The theory is that the busy ones will all be 10-car, but opinions here differ on how that will work in practice.
Murray J
Member
Ok thanks. I'm assuming the 180s will probably just operate as 5 cars, considering there's only 4 of them, unless they use the same couplers as the 222s or 80x's.
43096
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Thought they were going for 24m on the EMR AT300s?
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
They are. A lot of "23m" vehicles are longer anyway. Pendolino cabs are about 25 and intermediates about 24.
Jozhua
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Why are they 23m anyway? I thought the clearances would be good on the MML.
I mean surely the Huddersfield line is more restrictive, yet 802's run on that!
Is it to do with platform lengths at St Pancras? Still, logic would dictate changing the 80X design less and just ordering a 9x26m 802 with some extra engines.
I mean surely the Huddersfield line is more restrictive, yet 802's run on that!
Is it to do with platform lengths at St Pancras? Still, logic would dictate changing the 80X design less and just ordering a 9x26m 802 with some extra engines.
edwin_m
Veteran Member
Clearly they want to save some money by using 5-car sets on certain services. I don't share the optimism that "most" of them will be 10-car, otherwise they would have bought 10-car units.
cactustwirly
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802s don't have the same performance as a 222
43096
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But you could put engines under 7 of the 9 cars without a design change which must be close to 222 performance.
cactustwirly
Established Member
At the moment the xx45 services from Nottingham have a 70 minute layover at St Pancras, and xx31 services from St Pancras to Sheffield have a 90 minute layover at Sheffield.
A more uniform fleet allows more interworking with services allowing shorter turnaround times.
Personally I'd put double sets on the Fast Sheffield and Nottingham services (replacing 7 car 222s and 8 car HSTs) and single sets on the slow Nottingham and semi fast Sheffield services (replacing 4/5 car 222s)
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