Lack of platform seating

Tracking · 2 Nov 2019

Hello everyone,
For a school project, I need to create a product to help solve lack of seating on train platforms, especially during times of travel disruption (e.g delayed trains) when the platforms can get very busy.
Firstly, how adequate are the current platform seating solutions from your experience?
Can you think of any potential solutions or ways to tackle the problem? If I am to create a sort of portable seating, what sort of requirements as a commuter would make you likely to use it?
If you have anything else to add please do.

Thank you.

RailUK Forums

30907 · 2 Nov 2019

Why would you want the seating to be portable, who would move it, and how would you stop others moving it?

Tracking · 2 Nov 2019

30907 said:
Why would you want the seating to be portable, who would move it, and how would you stop others moving it?

It could be a portable solution which a passenger would take with themselves, or something that can be stacked and managed by rail staff and handed out when necessary.

Y Ddraig Coch · 2 Nov 2019

Most stations have waiting rooms , even if not on the same platform.

Lack of seating on platforms eases congestion and also encourages people to stay in the waiting room until just before their train is due rather than hanging round for a long time at the actual platform.

Tracking · 2 Nov 2019

Y Ddraig Coch said:
Most stations have waiting rooms , even if not on the same platform.

Lack of seating on platforms eases congestion and also encourages people to stay in the waiting room until just before their train is due rather than hanging round for a long time at the actual platform.

Yes, that is true.
During times of travel disruption, with many people waiting and seats on the platforms all taken, do you tend to find seating within the waiting rooms, from your experience? Do you still notice many people standing around?

Clip · 2 Nov 2019

Tracking said:
It could be a portable solution which a passenger would take with themselves, or something that can be stacked and managed by rail staff and handed out when necessary.

Portable seats are already on the market - what would you bring that would be different to whats already available?

Theres a very good reason why these solutions are not widespread and thats because people already have enough to carry around with them and in the most part, large amounts of the nationals rail users dont wait for too long at their station

Llanigraham · 2 Nov 2019

Issue all passengers (NOTE: Not all passengers are commuters!!) with "shooting sticks".

As I suspect you are too young to know about them, they are like walking sticks but with dual fold down handles at the top you can perch your BTM on.

HSTFan57 · 2 Nov 2019

I don't often find myself wanting to sit down while waiting outside on a platform. For about half of the year, I will get cold if I sit outside for any length of time, so I wander around the platform to keep warm. More indoor seating might be useful, particularly in stations that lack other areas where people can shelter from the weather.

Tio Terry · 3 Nov 2019

Lot’s of platforms are limited in width, any form of permanent seating would form an obstruction to easy access and egress to and from trains.

EbbwJunction1 · 3 Nov 2019

There are several problems with my local station (Newport, South Wales) about seating.

Although the amount of seats have been increased on platform 2 / 3, in my view it's still not enough, and they are also concentrated around one particular area. In addition, because of the poor state of the platform canopies, when it rains, several of the seats can't be used (unless you have a towel) because they're soaking wet! There really isn't enough seating on platforms 1 & 4, especially the latter, although that at least does have a waiting room.

Since the station was redeveloped, the waiting room on platform 2 / 3 is now quite a distance from the main area. Because of the current electrification works, it's also hidden by a lot of hoardings, and as the signing isn't good, I doubt whether many people even though that it's there!

I don't think that any of the changes that have been made to the station in the last ten / fifteen years have been made from the travellers' viewpoint, as none of them are very customer friendly.

Snow1964 · 3 Nov 2019

Platform seating often seems an afterthought, I have used plenty of commuter stations where it is not evenly spread along a platform. There appears to be no thought to placing it where carriages tend to be quieter in the peaks to encourage more passengers to board at that point.

At very busy stations it can impede flow if the platforms were historically not that wide, so I understand reluctance to install seats at certain places.

As for the semi-portable solution, might be useful where there are short periods of extra use due to festivals or events (examples Cheltenham, Henley on Thames etc) providing space is available, but can’t see passengers bringing own seat.

61653 HTAFC · 3 Nov 2019

One thing that is often missing from stations (and indeed bus shelters) is "perch seating": generally higher than typical benches, with no backrest, which is useful for passengers with rucksacks.

xotGD · 3 Nov 2019

61653 HTAFC said:
One thing that is often missing from stations (and indeed bus shelters) is "perch seating": generally higher than typical benches, with no backrest, which is useful for passengers with rucksacks.

Passengers with rucksacks should be taking them off their backs before getting on the train instead of whacking everyone else in the face with them.

61653 HTAFC · 3 Nov 2019

xotGD said:
Passengers with rucksacks should be taking them off their backs before getting on the train instead of whacking everyone else in the face with them.

That's a good point, but completely irrelevant to discussion about seating on platforms while waiting for the train!

I could go on a rant about wheeled suitcases and the hazard they present in crowded stations, but I won't.

Ethano92 · 3 Nov 2019

61653 HTAFC said:
One thing that is often missing from stations (and indeed bus shelters) is "perch seating": generally higher than typical benches, with no backrest, which is useful for passengers with rucksacks.

This style of seating on the Jubilee line platforms at Waterloo is well used. I do often wonder why it can't be more widespread, for example, no core crossrail platform appear to have this. Could also be used in the Thameslink core, espespecially at St Pancras. I suppose the obvious alternative is to lean against a wall though that's not always possible on island or exposed stations without a wall. Something to perch on would certainly be a good start, not always necessary to be fully sitting down. A full seat may also be considered somewhat space inefficient and not too necessary on a commuter line with a decent service.

I find seating appears to be often missing even at wide platforms. For example at my local station, there are 4 sets of 4 seats along a 10 car platform, they could easily place plenty more including quite a few under the wide canopy without intruding on the space for passenger flow. Useful for a 4tph service.

Bevan Price · 3 Nov 2019

61653 HTAFC said:
One thing that is often missing from stations (and indeed bus shelters) is "perch seating": generally higher than typical benches, with no backrest, which is useful for passengers with rucksacks.

Most "perch" type seating is awful - it is often sloped and I tend to slide forwards off the seat. I understand why they probably use them in bus shelters - to stop drunks and/or homeless persons sleeping on them.

In my opinion, many stations have insufficient seating areas - most of us don't really want to stand for long periods when we have lengthy connection times, or have (all too commonly in some areas) long waits due to late or cancelled trains. Those who say we don't need seats forget that we do not all travel from stations with frequent suburban services running every 10 to 15 minutes.

Wooden benches are probably the most comfortable, but also the type most easily vandalised. Metal seats can be fairly comfortable, but feel very cold, especially in winter. Also steel corrodes, and can also be a target for metal thieves.
Seats made from concrete "blocks" might be one solution - long lasting, not easily vandalised, and not a target for thieves.

I would also add that many of the "bus shelter" type of waiting areas on stations are very poorly designed and offer very little protection from rain, especially on windy days.

randyrippley · 4 Nov 2019

Seating at rail and bus stations is an invitation to drunks and other n'er-do-wells to infest the place. One reason why seating is kept to a minimum. Another is crowd control - you want to discourage people from entering the platform too early for safety reasons

Fawkes Cat · 4 Nov 2019

Going back to the OP's question, a point to bear in mind is safety. At the risk of stating the obvious, trains run on rails. That means that obstructing the rails will stop trains running (which I am taking to be obviously undesirable). This in turn means that railway companies will not be at all keen on anything portable that can be easily ported by malicious persons on to the track.

So from the point of view of your project, the bad news is that a portable solution would probably be unacceptable to railway companies, so that limits what you should look at. But the good news is that you now have a much smaller range of solutions to consider, making your project rather easier.

hwl · 4 Nov 2019

Tracking said:
Hello everyone,
For a school project, I need to create a product to help solve lack of seating on train platforms, especially during times of travel disruption (e.g delayed trains) when the platforms can get very busy.
Firstly, how adequate are the current platform seating solutions from your experience?
Can you think of any potential solutions or ways to tackle the problem? If I am to create a sort of portable seating, what sort of requirements as a commuter would make you likely to use it?
If you have anything else to add please do.

Thank you.

All seating (or any thing else that could cause a derailment if on the track) needs to be permanently afixed to a wall /floor so it can't end up on the track.
Occasionally a new Cafe on the premises doesn't get the message and a user ties their dog lead to an unfixed table, which the dog then drags on to the track shorting the 3rd rail (a real incident 4-5 years ago).

Unfixed seating is also a major hazard in the even of a stampede (a requirement to be though of) and also seating takes up more space than standing thus reducing the space for those left standing.

There are plenty of good reasons there aren't current solutions in many cases.

TheManOnThe172 · 4 Nov 2019

Two more factors to think about.

Firstly, at major stations, there is a conflict between the interests of the passenger (who wants plenty of space to sit down for free) and the interests of the station operator. Seating areas cost money to heat, light, and clean - and don't earn any revenue. Retail space makes money, so we are seeing stations with more retail and less public space. And the rents that can be achieved from sit-down catering outlets will be higher if there is a shortage of free seating that nudges passengers to buy a coffee if they want to sit down.

Secondly, stations where many passengers are on specific-train (eg Advance) tickets will see more demand for seating than those where most passengers are on any-train tickets, as the penalty for missing your intended train is horrendous and so the rational passenger will aim to arrive well ahead of departure time.

themiller · 4 Nov 2019

Often at Carlisle trains stand locked shut in platforms 2, 5, 6 and 7 for extended periods whilst passengers wait alongside on the platforms. This is all very good except for when it's windy and cold/wet. The trains would form a perfect waiting room as they used to in days gone-by. I realise that cleaning needs to be done but, on completion of that, the trains could be unlocked for passenger use. This would allow leisurely boarding instead of the scrum when the train crew turn up.

61653 HTAFC · 4 Nov 2019

themiller said:
Often at Carlisle trains stand locked shut in platforms 2, 5, 6 and 7 for extended periods whilst passengers wait alongside on the platforms. This is all very good except for when it's windy and cold/wet. The trains would form a perfect waiting room as they used to in days gone-by. I realise that cleaning needs to be done but, on completion of that, the trains could be unlocked for passenger use. This would allow leisurely boarding instead of the scrum when the train crew turn up.

The same happens at Huddersfield with all the services that start from the island platform... not much of an issue during the day usually when there's the quite pleasant waiting room and even the café when it's open. However in recent weeks the waiting room has often been locked and the café has been closing early, so it hasn't been great when it's been raining sideways as often happens on the edge of the Pennines!

option · 4 Nov 2019

Y Ddraig Coch said:
Most stations have waiting rooms , even if not on the same platform.

Lack of seating on platforms eases congestion and also encourages people to stay in the waiting room until just before their train is due rather than hanging round for a long time at the actual platform.

My nearest station;
waiting room on one platform, no PIS in it. Screen is outside, but only shows info for that platform. So thats not much use.
Next station down; no waiting room. Next station up; no waiting room. Other stations on the route have waiting rooms locked out of use.
Okay, it's an every 10minutes service, but when it falls apart...

johnr57 · 4 Nov 2019

by way of a Victorian solution

platform 1, Scarborough, the worlds longest railway station bench seat

61653 HTAFC · 4 Nov 2019

johnr57 said:
by way of a Victorian solution

platform 1, Scarborough, the worlds longest railway station bench seat

From the still image of that video, that looks as though there's a sufficient gap between the base and the backrest for a rucksack to tuck in (and avoid taking anyone out with

)... I'll have to make a trip over on the fancy new trains to be sure though!

WindsorJoe · 4 Nov 2019

There is plenty of seating on the Thameslink at St Pancras and at other stations on the core. I believe Euston station has just had or is just having lots of new seats installed.

wellhouse · 4 Nov 2019

Taking a slightly different perspective on the OP's proposition, if seating is to be provided with capacity for maximum crowding conditions, why should it be designed to be removed during normal service?

If there's space for it on the platform, why bother providing storage elsewhere?

If there's congestion why aggravate it with a furniture moving exercise?

Skoodle · 5 Nov 2019

What about solution for stations such as Wapping and Rotherhithe, where the platform width doesn't allow any seating at all?

Andyjs247 · 5 Nov 2019

Going back to the original question and thinking outside the box a little, how about luggage you can sit on. If you’re going to take luggage with you anyway I’ve often wondered whether you could make one of those trolley cases strong enough and comfortable enough to sit on if needed, maybe with retractable wheels and handle stored out of the way.

xotGD · 5 Nov 2019

Andyjs247 said:
Going back to the original question and thinking outside the box a little, how about luggage you can sit on. If you’re going to take luggage with you anyway I’ve often wondered whether you could make one of those trolley cases strong enough and comfortable enough to sit on if needed, maybe with retractable wheels and handle stored out of the way.

I saw a chap try sitting on his case the other day. It started to roll away and he almost ended up falling over onto the platform. Would need wheel locks (like on pushchairs) to make them safe to sit on!

Lack of platform seating

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