SWR Strike Action: Strikes every day in December except 1st, 12th, 25th & 26th

Monty · 5 Nov 2019

Commercial guards obviously get paid a bit more than a guard, so that's why there is a difference in price. Been told at my depot that we'll be getting just shy of two grand, so when you factor in tax and other deductions we are only missing out on a few hundred. Already getting a temp job lined up for over Christmas so who knows I may even end up ahead... Rumour is Unite and a few other trade unions have stumped up quite a bit of cash for this strike so that's probably where the financial backing has come from.

I just want to make it clear not many of us at work are really that keen about this strike for a magnitude of reasons I won't get in to. However this is the third time this year that the union and the company have reach some kind of agreement only for when it comes to put into writing the company have either stalled for time or change the wording at the last minute. The last agreement that was made last week was supposed to be signed and sealed by Friday ready to be put to the members to vote on, nothing was received, they had the whole weekend to sort it out and we gave them an extra day yesterday and still nothing.. I'd say we have been mighty patient of late..

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pompeyfan · 5 Nov 2019

Monty said:
Commercial guards obviously get paid a bit more than a guard, so that's why there is a difference in price. Been told at my depot that we'll be getting just shy of two grand, so when you factor in tax and other deductions we are only missing out on a few hundred. Already getting a temp job lined up for over Christmas so who knows I may even end up ahead... Rumour is Unite and a few other trade unions have stumped up quite a bit of cash for this strike so that's probably where the financial backing has come from.

I just want to make it clear not many of us at work are really that keen about this strike for a magnitude of reasons I won't get in to. However this is the third time this year that the union and the company have reach some kind of agreement only for when it comes to put into writing the company have either stalled for time or change the wording at the last minute. The last agreement that was made last week was supposed to be signed and sealed by Friday ready to be put to the members to vote on, nothing was received, they had the whole weekend to sort it out and we gave them an extra day yesterday and still nothing.. I'd say we have been mighty patient of late..

depot rumour mill was that Mellors and Penlington agreed to it, but group at Aberdeen threw it back...

Bigfoot · 5 Nov 2019

pompeyfan said:
depot rumour mill was that Mellors and Penlington agreed to it, but group at Aberdeen threw it back...

Given that the first group negotiation team didn't come back to the table, the rmt gave them a chance of an extra few hours which was still ignored, they forced the unions hand.

Journeyman · 5 Nov 2019

All I can see happening here is that SWR will just impose DOO. It'll take them a while to do it, but what else can they do? They'll probably have the full backing of the DfT, and their customers will be absolutely spitting rivets.

Journeyman · 5 Nov 2019

Gems said:
Yeah. I remember the days when people fought like lunatics for their working rights. These days we throw them away cheaply and criticise those who refuse to do so.

I think you're incredibly naive if you think SWR's customers are going to support this. It is, in fact, an extremely strong argument in favour of DOO, which operates safely all over the network already, and has done for nearly 40 years.

We live in an entirely different world now, where a lot of things are automated. I'm not saying anyone should lose jobs over this, but I think it's blindingly obvious that staff are better deployed on stations or on revenue collection. SWR suburban guards never leave the cabs.

All this is going to do is prove to be gold dust to any Tory candidate campaigning in SWR territory, and it'll probably win them a few seats they might otherwise have lost. You might want to think about what the consequences of that will be for average working people.

ComUtoR · 5 Nov 2019

Journeyman said:
I think you're incredibly naive if you think SWR's customers are going to support this.

I'll be down in SWR land at the weekend. As one of their customers; they will have my full and unequivocal support.

Bevan Price · 5 Nov 2019

ainsworth74 said:
If you sack striking workers (who have taken part in a properly organised ballot) you're breaking the law and the Employment Tribunal will eat you for breakfast. There might be more legs in getting them sign up to a new OBS contract but ASLEF are the elephant in the room. Until they agree that their members can operate DOO these new OBS's won't be doing very much at all.

.

Illegal at the moment - but creates a good excuse for Boris & co. to change / abolish that law..........

Journeyman · 5 Nov 2019

ComUtoR said:
I'll be down in SWR land at the weekend. As one of their customers; they will have my full and unequivocal support.

I doubt you'd say that if you couldn't get to work for the best part of a month.

Brissle Girl · 5 Nov 2019

hooverboy said:
there is no impasse here.

I spy a lot of lawsuits coming SWR/RMT's way from businesses to recover lost earnings from employees who cannot get to work.
in the case of the city boys the firms have very deep pockets indeed.

strike action of this duration is more than a mere inconvenience.I don't see them sitting idly by and letting it happen.
it'll, be several hundred million in compensation(enough to bankrupt both SWR and RMT),or a forced solution from SWR.

bad move

This won't happen for two reasons. Firstly, there's no case that employers can bring in respect of losses due to employees not getting to work. There's no contract between employers and the TOC. If that were possible it would have been done long before now.

But, more to the point, all those white collar deep pocketed employers in the city are all geared up for their staff to work from home. Not to facilitate strike breaking, but just the inevitable march of technology where it's not resisted by luddite unions. Given it's only one subset of the workforce involved, (those in SWR land), those employers will have not one jot of an issue in carrying on with staff only coming in on one or two days a week. We're already seeing this trend of home working eat into season ticket sales, and I suspect the outcome of a prolonged strike will be to accelerate that trend.

Journeyman · 5 Nov 2019

Brissle Girl said:
We're already seeing this trend of home working eat into season ticket sales, and I suspect the outcome of a prolonged strike will be to accelerate that trend.

I think you're absolutely right, and it's a classic example of shooting oneself in the foot here.

Ethano92 · 5 Nov 2019

Journeyman said:
I think you're incredibly naive if you think SWR's customers are going to support this. It is, in fact, an extremely strong argument in favour of DOO, which operates safely all over the network already, and has done for nearly 40 years.

We live in an entirely different world now, where a lot of things are automated. I'm not saying anyone should lose jobs over this, but I think it's blindingly obvious that staff are better deployed on stations or on revenue collection. SWR suburban guards never leave the cabs.

All this is going to do is prove to be gold dust to any Tory candidate campaigning in SWR territory, and it'll probably win them a few seats they might otherwise have lost. You might want to think about what the consequences of that will be for average working people.

Indeed I agree. Espespecially the last sentence. I think many people see it as RMT inconveniencing SWR after all it's not SWR at the cause of their reduced service so why would they side for RMT.

With the public getting tired of this dispute why would they side for RMT and the continuation of guard operated doors/a guard at all. You'd just be in fear that "they'll be after something else next year" for another debacle to occur.

What won't help is the fact that those on strike are getting paid a fairly large chunk of their regular wage whilst commuters are travelling on busier services and very possibly dealing with extended travel times for no extra. I personally think at least an apology to those who have to get to work would be nice.

43096 · 5 Nov 2019

ComUtoR said:
I'll be down in SWR land at the weekend. As one of their customers; they will have my full and unequivocal support.

You aren’t exactly a regular punter then. I’m a daily user of SWR who has to use them to get to work so I’m frankly not interested in the views of an occasional weekend traveller. They have 0% support from me. Same applies to the incompetent management.

ComUtoR · 5 Nov 2019

Journeyman said:
I doubt you'd say that if you couldn't get to work for the best part of a month.

I would use an alternative. Whilst an unpopular option, I would have no choice but they would still have my support. When I was reliant on the train to get to work, I hated it. I moved to the car as soon as I could. Now I hate getting stuck in traffic every day, its frustrating and the roads near me are a nightmare. Still the train is a poor option for my personal commute.

However, what I find important, is that my own personal inconvenience doesn't outweigh someone's right to strike for what they believe. I don't agree with Extinction rebellions actions, neither do I agree with what they do. I also don't agree with Taxi's who block up central London. BUT I do support their right to take said action and tbhvfh I'm glad I'm in a country that still has these 'rights'

DOO is something I am against. I support their cause and the action they are taking.

Journeyman · 5 Nov 2019

Ethano92 said:
With the public getting tired of this dispute why would they side for RMT and the continuation of guard operated doors/a guard at all. You'd just be in fear that "they'll be after something else next year" for another debacle to occur.

That's precisely what happened with the Winter of Discontent. The unions took things too far and lost the sympathy of the public, who understandably voted for the party that promised to deal with it.

SWR's customers aren't going to buy this "DOO is unsafe!!!" thing forever, especially as most of them will step off trains at Waterloo and board a tube, which will have been DOO for many years. It is literally an argument over who gets to push buttons.

ComUtoR · 5 Nov 2019

43096 said:
You aren’t exactly a regular punter then. I’m a daily user of SWR who has to use them to get to work so I’m frankly not interested in the views of an occasional weekend traveller. They have 0% support from me. Same applies to the incompetent management.

So people who commute take president over leisure travelers. leisure traveler opinions don't count ?

43096 · 5 Nov 2019

ComUtoR said:
I would use an alternative. Whilst an unpopular option, I would have no choice but they would still have my support. When I was reliant on the train to get to work, I hated it. I moved to the car as soon as I could. Now I hate getting stuck in traffic every day, its frustrating and the roads near me are a nightmare. Still the train is a poor option for my personal commute.

However, what I find important, is the my own personal inconvenience doesn't outweigh someone's right to strike for what they believe. I don't agree with Extinction rebellions actions, neither do I agree with what they do. I also don't agree with Taxi's who block up central London. BUT I do support their right to take said action and tbhvfh I'm glad I'm in a country that still has these 'rights'

DOO is something I am against. I support their cause and the action they are taking.

What a load of idealistic leftie twaddle.

Do please explain what the alternatives are for people going to work in London for chunks of south London, Berkshire, Hampshire etc. I really think you haven’t got a clue what you are talking about.

Journeyman · 5 Nov 2019

ComUtoR said:
DOO is something I am against.

Why?

Just curious.

43096 · 5 Nov 2019

ComUtoR said:
So people who commute take president over leisure travelers. leisure traveler opinions don't count ?

In your case, absolutely!

ComUtoR · 5 Nov 2019

Journeyman said:
Why?

Just curious.

Because I work it.

NoMorePacers · 5 Nov 2019

43096 said:
What a load of idealistic leftie twaddle.

Congratulations for completely invalidating every single argument you have made with an ad hominem insult! Would you like me to mail you a medal?

Ladder23 · 5 Nov 2019

without reading back on all this, can someone in laymans terms sum up why and what's going on exactly. (I have tried reading it but some posts and views sound far to in depth for me to understand without looking far into facts, an I don't ultimately have the time but I would like a brief understanding)

Journeyman · 5 Nov 2019

43096 said:
What a load of idealistic leftie twaddle.

Do please explain what the alternatives are for people going to work in London for chunks of south London, Berkshire, Hampshire etc. I really think you haven’t got a clue what you are talking about.

I used to live in Wimbledon, and while at least on paper there were several alternatives to SWR for getting into London, they were all completely swamped when SWR was down, and the journey quickly became impossible.

43096 · 5 Nov 2019

NoMorePacers said:
Congratulations for completely invalidating every single argument you have made with an ad hominem insult! Would you like me to mail you a medal?

No, you’re fine, I wouldn’t want to deprive you. Muttley gave me one of his years ago. :lol:

Kite159 · 5 Nov 2019

Brissle Girl said:
This won't happen for two reasons. Firstly, there's no case that employers can bring in respect of losses due to employees not getting to work. There's no contract between employers and the TOC. If that were possible it would have been done long before now.

But, more to the point, all those white collar deep pocketed employers in the city are all geared up for their staff to work from home. Not to facilitate strike breaking, but just the inevitable march of technology where it's not resisted by luddite unions. Given it's only one subset of the workforce involved, (those in SWR land), those employers will have not one jot of an issue in carrying on with staff only coming in on one or two days a week. We're already seeing this trend of home working eat into season ticket sales, and I suspect the outcome of a prolonged strike will be to accelerate that trend.

The ones who will be impacted are the low paid workers whose job can't be worked from home, for example a cleaner/caretaker. (Or using a local example, workers in the bank note factory next to Overton station). The ones who can't necessary afford to pay for a taxi if there is no trains, and won't be able to afford to not attend work.

Journeyman · 5 Nov 2019

ComUtoR said:
So people who commute take president over leisure travelers. leisure traveler opinions don't count ?

You won't like this, but no, they matter somewhat less than the many, many people who really struggle to get to work without trains. Have you any idea how many people will possibly lose their jobs over this? It could run into very large numbers.

If you can't go shopping or get to a footie match, you're not quite as important as someone who can't get to work for the best part of a month.

Kimi · 5 Nov 2019

Do RMT pay strike pay?

This is a real hard time of the year for their members if not.. how many could seriously survive Christmas without almost all their pay..?

Or, will they be signing up for Uber en masse or some other gig-economy jobs to pay their way?

WA_Driver · 5 Nov 2019

Journeyman said:
SWR suburban guards never leave the cab.

Interesting......I think you’re naive to believe that suburban guards never leave the cab. I know for a fact that the suburban guards I work with all leave their cabs. Granted there are times of the day where that is impossible.

Journeyman said:
That's precisely what happened with the Winter of Discontent. The unions took things too far and lost the sympathy of the public, who understandably voted for the party that promised to deal with it.

SWR's customers aren't going to buy this "DOO is unsafe!!!" thing forever, especially as most of them will step off trains at Waterloo and board a tube, which will have been DOO for many years. It is literally an argument over who gets to push buttons.

DOO on London Underground is slightly different than DOO on the SWR network!

It not just an argument about who gets to push buttons

bussnapperwm · 5 Nov 2019

ComUtoR said:
I would use an alternative. Whilst an unpopular option, I would have no choice but they would still have my support. When I was reliant on the train to get to work, I hated it. I moved to the car as soon as I could. Now I hate getting stuck in traffic every day, its frustrating and the roads near me are a nightmare. Still the train is a poor option for my personal commute.

However, what I find important, is that my own personal inconvenience doesn't outweigh someone's right to strike for what they believe. I don't agree with Extinction rebellions actions, neither do I agree with what they do. I also don't agree with Taxi's who block up central London. BUT I do support their right to take said action and tbhvfh I'm glad I'm in a country that still has these 'rights'

DOO is something I am against. I support their cause and the action they are taking.

I honestly agree with you and, as a Union member for all 11 years I've been employed, I'm supporting the RMT in the quest to protect their members rights.

Journeyman · 5 Nov 2019

WA_Driver said:
Interesting......I think you’re naive to believe that suburban guards never leave the cab. I know for a fact that the suburban guards I work with all leave their cabs. Granted there are times of the day where that is impossible.

I don't live on the SWT/SWR patch any more, but I did for many years, and I've never seen a guard out and about on a 455/456.

WA_Driver said:
DOO on London Underground is slightly different than DOO on the SWR network!

Is it? How?

theking · 5 Nov 2019

I watched a couple of SWR train's at Clapham Junction and the station duties are painfully slow with a guard, must have been about 1/5 of the actual stop time were passengers alighting and boarding the rest was waiting for the guard to open the doors and then dispatch duties.
If you come from doo land you really notice the difference no wonder the companies want drivers to do the doors.

SWR Strike Action: Strikes every day in December except 1st, 12th, 25th & 26th

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