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Unfortunately-named locomotives?

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Merle Haggard

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When a group of locomotives is named with a common theme, the theme itself may seem appropriate but, if the individual names are not connected by the observing passenger to that theme, they may seem odd - a good example is the LNER practice naming engines after race-horses. Race-horses are, of course fast but the names of race-horses aren't chosen to themselves indicate speed. Another example; when I worked at Paddington RHQ in the '80s I often saw a class 50 named 'RODNEY' I thought at the time this would be more likely to remind the passer-by of Only Fools and Horses and one of the catch-phrases of that programme, rather than the dignity of one of H.M.'s warships...
At Paddington I came across a dusty file relating to an early scheme for proposed names for the D1000's. Possibly following the theme of the Bulleid Pacifics and the LBSC Atlantics this original proposal was to use the names of towns in Devon and Cornwall and also (with a nod to the LBSC's Hartland Point and Beachy Head), coastal landmarks. There is a headland near Kingsbridge called The Bolt, and accordingly two of the proposed names were Bolt Head and Bolt Tail. Sadly, I can't prove it, but it's absolutely true. Some of the Western Xxxx names were pretty silly in my opinion, but that silliness would be exceeded considerably by the possibility of seeing Bolt Head on the side of a loco
 
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Western Sunset

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Re-early names for Thousands, I can quite believe that list of coastal features mentioned above. D1000 did appear with "Cheddar Gorge" plates whilst still in the confines of Swindon.
 

Calthrop

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When a group of locomotives is named with a common theme, the theme itself may seem appropriate but, if the individual names are not connected by the observing passenger to that theme, they may seem odd - a good example is the LNER practice naming engines after race-horses. Race-horses are, of course fast but the names of race-horses aren't chosen to themselves indicate speed. Another example; when I worked at Paddington RHQ in the '80s I often saw a class 50 named 'RODNEY' I thought at the time this would be more likely to remind the passer-by of Only Fools and Horses and one of the catch-phrases of that programme, rather than the dignity of one of H.M.'s warships...
At Paddington I came across a dusty file relating to an early scheme for proposed names for the D1000's. Possibly following the theme of the Bulleid Pacifics and the LBSC Atlantics this original proposal was to use the names of towns in Devon and Cornwall and also (with a nod to the LBSC's Hartland Point and Beachy Head), coastal landmarks. There is a headland near Kingsbridge called The Bolt, and accordingly two of the proposed names were Bolt Head and Bolt Tail. Sadly, I can't prove it, but it's absolutely true. Some of the Western Xxxx names were pretty silly in my opinion, but that silliness would be exceeded considerably by the possibility of seeing Bolt Head on the side of a loco

Re-early names for Thousands, I can quite believe that list of coastal features mentioned above. D1000 did appear with "Cheddar Gorge" plates whilst still in the confines of Swindon.

Overall, it would seem to behove "thematic" namers of locos, to be aware of and avoid names which risk descending into bathos. (The "racehorse" names strike me as, in a sense, magically proof against that hazard -- others will disagree.) As per @Merle Haggard -- with Rodney (name of a ship, called in turn after the surname of an eighteenth-century honoured winner of naval victories): I wonder whether naval heroes are particularly subject to this pitfall -- cf, in my OP, the "Jubilee" named Shovell. (This was after Admiral Sir Cloudesley Shovell, fl. some three centuries ago -- I can imagine that admiral himself cursing his parents for their part in lumbering him with such a silly-sounding name.) Supposing that Patrick O'Brian's fictional Royal Navy swashbuckler of the Napoleonic Era, Captain Jack Aubrey, had been a real historical personage -- a loco or locos named Aubrey after him, would I feel, tend to give rise to thoughts of a somewhat wet, meek-and-mild gentleman, rather than martial ferocity. Incidentally, a late uncle of mine had the Christian name Aubrey. He was in character, the absolute reverse of wet; I had the sense that he rather wished that my grandparents had chosen to give him some other name.
 

edwin_m

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Overall, it would seem to behove "thematic" namers of locos, to be aware of and avoid names which risk descending into bathos. (The "racehorse" names strike me as, in a sense, magically proof against that hazard -- others will disagree.) As per @Merle Haggard -- with Rodney (name of a ship, called in turn after the surname of an eighteenth-century honoured winner of naval victories): I wonder whether naval heroes are particularly subject to this pitfall -- cf, in my OP, the "Jubilee" named Shovell. (This was after Admiral Sir Cloudesley Shovell, fl. some three centuries ago -- I can imagine that admiral himself cursing his parents for their part in lumbering him with such a silly-sounding name.) Supposing that Patrick O'Brian's fictional Royal Navy swashbuckler of the Napoleonic Era, Captain Jack Aubrey, had been a real historical personage -- a loco or locos named Aubrey after him, would I feel, tend to give rise to thoughts of a somewhat wet, meek-and-mild gentleman, rather than martial ferocity. Incidentally, a late uncle of mine had the Christian name Aubrey. He was in character, the absolute reverse of wet; I had the sense that he rather wished that my grandparents had chosen to give him some other name.
"Howe" was a similar one - there would be kids standing facing it and raising one hand in the apochryphal Native American greeting.

Shovell's career and life were cut short when he wrecked the fleet on the Isles of Scilly, due to mistaking his longitude in the years before there was any reliable means of measuring it. Not a great precedent for a locomotive name.
 

krus_aragon

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Shovell's career and life were cut short when he wrecked the fleet on the Isles of Scilly, due to mistaking his longitude in the years before there was any reliable means of measuring it. Not a great precedent for a locomotive name.
Though perhaps one favoured by firemen. :)
 

randyrippley

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"Howe" was a similar one - there would be kids standing facing it and raising one hand in the apochryphal Native American greeting.

Shovell's career and life were cut short when he wrecked the fleet on the Isles of Scilly, due to mistaking his longitude in the years before there was any reliable means of measuring it. Not a great precedent for a locomotive name.

Highflyer was the weirdest sounding of any of the Warships.
 

Calthrop

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Shovell's career and life were cut short when he wrecked the fleet on the Isles of Scilly, due to mistaking his longitude in the years before there was any reliable means of measuring it. Not a great precedent for a locomotive name.
Though perhaps one favoured by firemen. :)

"You're the driver's mate on the old footplate,
And you're married to a lousy shovel(l)."

Highflyer was the weirdest sounding of any of the Warships.

Now I'd reckon "Highflyer" a splendid name -- one might hark back to the Lancashire & Yorkshire Ry.'s admired Class 7 4-4-2s, designed by Aspinall, nicknamed the "Highflyers".
 

gg1

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There was a GWR 4000 class loco named Prince Albert.

Considering how popular Royal Navy warships are as a subject for loco names, we're lucky there have never been locos named Cockchafer, Pansy, Broke, Spanker or Happy Entrance.
 

Jona26

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The original loco on the Newlyn quarry railway was named Koppel until the outbreak of WW1 when it became Penlee
Garside's at Leighton Buzzard named their locos after racehorses as well, some examples

Brendan's cottage
Brown Jack
Lemon Cheese
Much Obliged
French Design
Sheila's Cottage
Scratch II
Torch Singer
Flush Royal
Fleeting Moment
Oxo
Gay Donald
Hard Ridden

And D9001 St Paddy if you are amused by Irish jokes

I wonder if any of the Leighton Buzzard locos ever double headed or top and tailed?

In which case the last two on the list would make an interesting combination!
 

d9009alycidon

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Just did a quick google of horse naming rules and some of the ones that have been rejected by the authorities are quite predictable - genuine applications rejected are, Ben Dover, Biggus Diccus, Penny Tration, Ophelia Balls, Ho Lee Fook, E Rex Sean and Sofa King Fast. Although two that got past were "Two In The Pink" and "Wear The Fox Hat"
 

pdeaves

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Just did a quick google of horse naming rules and some of the ones that have been rejected by the authorities are quite predictable - genuine applications rejected are, Ben Dover, Biggus Diccus, Penny Tration, Ophelia Balls, Ho Lee Fook, E Rex Sean and Sofa King Fast. Although two that got past were "Two In The Pink" and "Wear The Fox Hat"
Did 'Hoof Hearted' make it to the list?

To those not in the know, the names you listed (and others on this thread) don't look any sillier than some of the commercial name plates used. Once you know the naming policy they can make sense, but most of the public won't know the policy.
 

Dr_Paul

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Just did a quick google of horse naming rules and some of the ones that have been rejected by the authorities are quite predictable - genuine applications rejected are, Ben Dover, Biggus Diccus, Penny Tration, Ophelia Balls, Ho Lee Fook, E Rex Sean and Sofa King Fast. Although two that got past were "Two In The Pink" and "Wear The Fox Hat"

I think that The Goons got away with a character called Hugh Jampton on their show back in the 1950s.

Returning to the railways, I read somewhere that the HSTs were originally going to be named in classical pairs as there are two locos on each train, with such pairings as Castor and Pollux and Romeo and Juliet. Then it was realised that the HSTs were not fixed sets and that the locos would be swapped about, thus giving rise to incongruous pairings. I don't know if this story is true; perhaps someone can confirm this one way or the other.
 

krus_aragon

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I think that The Goons got away with a character called Hugh Jampton on their show back in the 1950s.

Returning to the railways, I read somewhere that the HSTs were originally going to be named in classical pairs as there are two locos on each train, with such pairings as Castor and Pollux and Romeo and Juliet. Then it was realised that the HSTs were not fixed sets and that the locos would be swapped about, thus giving rise to incongruous pairings. I don't know if this story is true; perhaps someone can confirm this one way or the other.
As they operate in a push-pull configuration, they really should have named a pair after Paul and Barry Chuckle. "To me, to you..." :)
 

Merle Haggard

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Just did a quick google of horse naming rules and some of the ones that have been rejected by the authorities are quite predictable - genuine applications rejected are, Ben Dover, Biggus Diccus, Penny Tration, Ophelia Balls, Ho Lee Fook, E Rex Sean and Sofa King Fast. Although two that got past were "Two In The Pink" and "Wear The Fox Hat"

Nothing to do with loco naming; but a local furnishings company was called 'Sofa King'. Adverts saying that their prices were 'Our prices are --- low - you wouldn't believe them' appeared in the local press for quite some time before someone complained.
 

AJM580

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I think that The Goons got away with a character called Hugh Jampton on their show back in the 1950s.

Returning to the railways, I read somewhere that the HSTs were originally going to be named in classical pairs as there are two locos on each train, with such pairings as Castor and Pollux and Romeo and Juliet. Then it was realised that the HSTs were not fixed sets and that the locos would be swapped about, thus giving rise to incongruous pairings. I don't know if this story is true; perhaps someone can confirm this one way or the other.

Michael Palin referenced this in his commentary on Great Railway Journeys (Euston - Kyle of Lochalsh), musing on the comedic possibilities of Samson and Hardy etc
 

Dr_Paul

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Nothing to do with loco naming; but a local furnishings company was called 'Sofa King'. Adverts saying that their prices were 'Our prices are --- low - you wouldn't believe them' appeared in the local press for quite some time before someone complained.

An unintentional clanger was dropped a few years back by the Nobo stationery firm when it proudly introduced its posh brand called Nobo Lux. How we roared with laughter when the new catalogue turned up at work. Not entirely surprisingly, the following catalogue made no mention of the Lux range...
 

Czesziafan

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"Howe" was a similar one - there would be kids standing facing it and raising one hand in the apochryphal Native American greeting.

Shovell's career and life were cut short when he wrecked the fleet on the Isles of Scilly, due to mistaking his longitude in the years before there was any reliable means of measuring it. Not a great precedent for a locomotive name.

I remember when divers found the wreck of his flagship the Association and brought up thousands of pounds worth of artefacts many of which were later auctioned. I still have a James II halfcrown that came from that wreck.

The navigation error was something of a perennial problem at the time due to the inability to calculate longitude, and the 1707 disaster led to a competition to develop an instrument that could do so. In any event the voyage from Gibraltar, whish the fleet had left a month earlier, was fraught with bad weather that impaired the crews' ability to navigate and the fleet had become hopelessly lost by the day of the disaster. Shovell believed they were off Ushant with clear deep water ahead into the mouth of the Channel. It was only when they saw the white water around the Gilstone Rock that they realised the mistake and by then it was too late.
 
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Czesziafan

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I have found most of the names given to locomotives since the mid eighties rather uninspiring compared to the cities, racehorses, and national heroes of the past.
 

Lucan

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IMHO it is silly to use names of racehorses. They may be topical within the racing world for a time but after that they become arbitrary. The only race horses that I could have brought to mind (before this thread) are Red Rum and Shergar. Racehorse names seem to be random words and phrases, so you might just as well pick loco names at random directly without reference to any horses. I had heard of the LNER loco Pearl Diver and found the name odd, but I now suppose someone can tell me it was some 1920's horse that became dog meat even before the loco ceased pulling trains.

I also think it odd to name something after something which is named after something else. Naming locos after warships named after Greek heroes is a case in point. I would have thought that eg Achilles as a loco name stood on its own strength without having to refer to the WW2 warship, which I gather is was meant to do. I say that as ex-RN and a fan of naval history myself (I even scratch-built a model of HMS Achilles once), and names like Howe and Anson take me straight to the naval heroes even though there were ships (and SR locos) named after them.
 

70014IronDuke

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IMHO it is silly to use names of racehorses. They may be topical within the racing world for a time but after that they become arbitrary. ...

Difficult to say today, but perhaps the Derby winners were more prominent with the general public back in the 20s and 30s. And, of course, many were built at Doncaster with its strong racing association.

Whatever, for the record, I thought the A3s (and A2s, but we didn't see so many of those) were and still are, for the most part, fabulously ethereal, romantic sounding names. The very randomness - Captain Cuttle, Kinght of Thistle, St Gatien, Sansovino, Gay Crusader, Bayardo - meant they were all just so magical, so awe inspiring. They send tingles up my spine even now. I think the only other names to come near were the King Arthurs and the Dxx Walter Scott novel ones, but I saw none of those.
 

Czesziafan

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The choice of name series was as often as not at the personal whim of the Chairman or General Manager so if one or both was a racing man it is easy to see how they might choose racehorse names. Similarly with Hunts and Football Clubs. In those days senior management had a much larger personal input into the running of the railway: other examples I can think of include the design of restaurant car and hotel crockery, curtains, carpets, and other fabrics. F.D.M Harding, chairman of Pullman in the fifties personally chose the design of crockery for the cars and when a special tartan faced uniform was decided on for attendants working the Queen of Scots Pullman, he decreed that it should be that of the Scottish regiment he had served in during the war.
 

DerekC

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Difficult to say today, but perhaps the Derby winners were more prominent with the general public back in the 20s and 30s. And, of course, many were built at Doncaster with its strong racing association.

Whatever, for the record, I thought the A3s (and A2s, but we didn't see so many of those) were and still are, for the most part, fabulously ethereal, romantic sounding names. The very randomness - Captain Cuttle, Kinght of Thistle, St Gatien, Sansovino, Gay Crusader, Bayardo - meant they were all just so magical, so awe inspiring. They send tingles up my spine even now. I think the only other names to come near were the King Arthurs and the Dxx Walter Scott novel ones, but I saw none of those.

Agree 100%. One evening my mum had taken me to London for some reason that I have forgotten - I guess I was about six or seven years old. We left Kings Cross on the 17:00 to Hertford North - the same booked time as the down "Talisman". Both left on time. Our N2 (as I imagine it was) with 6 or so up out-accelerated the Talisman, so at some point in the depths of Gasworks Tunnel our carriage window came alongside 60055 "Woolwinder" in all her green paint and glory - I just remember the name and the great 6 ft 8in driving wheels going round, right outside the window. I was hooked - on A3s, Woolwinder in particular and railways in general!!
 

Gwenllian2001

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Many years ago, I saw Lord Nelson buffered up to Duchess of Hamilton at Carnforth. What you do behind closed doors is fair enough but in public, that tut.
 
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Some of the LNER Thompson B1s were exotically named after species of antelope, at the suggestion of General Smuts, who christened the first 'Springbok'. Later examples were rather boringly named after LNER directors. 61005 'Bongo' was a bit of an unfortunate name - Gerry Fiennes tells the story of it being rostered one day for the 'Day Continental' to Harwich PQ. A stern reprimand came from 'upstairs' that under no circumstances was this loco to be rostered again for such an important international service.
 

Calthrop

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IMHO it is silly to use names of racehorses.
Whatever, for the record, I thought the A3s (and A2s, but we didn't see so many of those) were and still are, for the most part, fabulously ethereal, romantic sounding names. The very randomness - Captain Cuttle, Kinght of Thistle, St Gatien, Sansovino, Gay Crusader, Bayardo - meant they were all just so magical, so awe inspiring. They send tingles up my spine even now. I think the only other names to come near were the King Arthurs and the Dxx Walter Scott novel ones, but I saw none of those.

As with so very much in subjects of one's personal "fancy": it comes down to personal opinion / sentiment and "de gustibus" -- nobody's objectively right or wrong ! I'm very much with @70014IronDuke on this particular question -- as I think I've made clear in this thread, I love the whole thing of racehorse names for locos, finding in it an element of mad, surreal poetry; but others feel otherwise -- and total freedom of opinion, "as should be".

The choice of name series was as often as not at the personal whim of the Chairman or General Manager so if one or both was a racing man it is easy to see how they might choose racehorse names. Similarly with Hunts and Football Clubs.

So, nomenclature pretty randomly at the whim of what avocations the Big Cheese happened to be "into". To me, seen in one light, a rather charming way of things -- even if liable to result in whole classes with names which did nothing for me (but would likely delight others). A considerable part of me, though, finds the whole organised-thematic-naming-of-locos -- including steam locos -- "malarkey", a rather foolish and pointless exercise: think I'm right in saying that for well over a century, it has been chiefly a British and Irish thing -- big railway undertakings elsewhere in the world mostly ceased long ago, to do it, except on a small, often individual scale for publicity purposes. In the earlier decades of railways, locos were named in profusion and with wonderful randomness -- that, I feel, would have been delightful and worth having; but precisely because it was spontaneous. When the whole thing became systematically "done in blocks", negative traits from "stereotyped / mechanistic" to "ridiculous", often showed up.

Some of the LNER Thompson B1s were exotically named after species of antelope, at the suggestion of General Smuts, who christened the first 'Springbok'. Later examples were rather boringly named after LNER directors. 61005 'Bongo' was a bit of an unfortunate name - Gerry Fiennes tells the story of it being rostered one day for the 'Day Continental' to Harwich PQ. A stern reprimand came from 'upstairs' that under no circumstances was this loco to be rostered again for such an important international service.

As I've mentioned upthread -- a class of locos named after those famously speedy and graceful beasts, antelopes, strikes me as a glorious idea; but then I'm a wildlife-lover. Others, plainly, feel and felt otherwise, seeing the names as undignified / grotesque / outlandish -- I've seen adversely-critically cited as such, Pronghorn, Puku, and -- as we've seen just above and elsewhere, Bongo. I see potential trouble nowadays with having a loco named Bongo, because of sensitivities connected with unenlightened folks' using the figure of speech of the place called "Bongo-Bongo-Land", concerning categories of people who they see as hailing from there and who they would prefer to remain there; for me, it's a splendid name after a splendid animal, "end-of".

If I might dare to venture into the realm of potentially off-colour loco names: there's a thing which I read long ago -- or it's of the sort, re which one wonders whether one only dreamed that one read it. Some seventy years ago, in the very last days of steam development on one of the big US railroads which continued with same, longer than most: the railroad designed and brought into service, a new ultra-modern, extremely powerful heavy-freight steam class. Their publicity department launched a competition throughout the area which the railroad's system served, for a suitably inspiring name for the first member of the class to come into service. A ten-year-old boy's suggestion, attracted considerable notice -- it was Trojan; as associated with tireless heavy labour, as in the tale of the famous Horse. Unfortunately -- for very many decades back, that name has also been the proprietary name in the USA of, shall we say, an item widely used in the birth-control field: said name, a very widespread colloquial Americanism to refer generically, to said item. One takes it that the class-leader had to end up being named something else. Inevitably, a bit of musing occurs as to whether the ten-year-old competition entrant was an innocent; or precociously dirty-minded...
 

Lucan

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I love the whole thing of racehorse names for locos, finding in it an element of mad, surreal poetry

I am all for the whimsical names but don't see why they should be tied to racehorses. Surely railwaymen can have imagination themselves? I also like the consistent naming of classes eg with West Country towns, or Castles as it enables instant association with a class.

The Royal Navy used whimsical if militaristic names on many of its battleships, such as Mars and Thunderer, but these capital ships were sufficiently well known not to need an indication of what class they belonged to. Lesser ships like cruisers and destroyers generally had consistent class names like counties or weapons, or all had the same initial letter.
 
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On the Trojan theme I remember coming back from a University Hockey tour to Eastleigh (kind of railway theme). The home club there is Trojans. I bought a t-shirt. My American flat mate raised an eyebrow and explained all.
 

Taunton

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. I see potential trouble nowadays with having a loco named Bongo, because of sensitivities connected with unenlightened folks' using the figure of speech of the place called "Bongo-Bongo-Land", concerning categories of people who they see as hailing from there and who they would prefer to remain there; for me, it's a splendid name after a splendid animal, "end-of".
Not just 61005 but the whole class were commonly known as such, enhanced by the Stratford Cockneys to "Bleedin' old Bongos".
 

d9009alycidon

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Had modern day marketing people been around back in the 1950s, might one of them seen 45735 Comet and thought, OK how about 45736 Dasher, 45737 Dancer, 45738 Prancer, 45739 Vixen, 457340 Cupid, 45741 Donner, 45742 Blitzen:D
 
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