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Northern Class 195: Construction/Introduction Updates
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Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I'm not sure this is the thread for discussing whether bicycles should be carried or not. But in the context of the Class 195s where they are carried, it makes no sense to have the area where they are meant to go designed as a convenient seating area that people quite like, as that basically renders it useless and the bikes end up in the vestibule instead. Similarly, having the tip-ups in the standbacks doesn't make sense, as they then can't be used for luggage or standing passengers.
Correct Boverboy. The amount of times during the morning peak someone with a bike barges their way onto a rammed train with no consideration for other passengers. I just find it inconsiderate when considering the bike takes up space for another passenger or two. If bikes weren't banned during peak I wouldn't have a problem as much.
In better news the spaciousness of the 195 allowed a lot of passengers to cram on a what should have been a 6 coach this morning (only 2 coaches). I was mildly impressed - a Pacer, 150, 156 would not have been able to accommodate as many standing passengers.
Quite, but a 150 or 156 would have accommodated more passengers seated (c.150 compared to 124 in a 195/0), so I doubt that many more passengers in total would have been able to board the 195. I suspect, in fact, that the 150 may have actually won the contest.
northernchris
Established Member
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I thought seating capacity of a 2 car 195 was like for like with a PRM'd 150
Was that this afternoon's service from Manchester to Liverpool? It's a disgrace when this happens!
Kieran1990
Member
Had two trips yesterday on the Class 195’s from Leeds to Bradford and return. I really can’t make my mind up if I like them or not.
- Ride quality was not great, the constant banging from the boogies was unsettling.
-positive thought- seat was comfy, acceleration is really good, PIS worked perfectly and they are light and airy.
I was on the 16:18 out of Leeds and everyone bar 2 people had a seat in the leading coach
- Ride quality was not great, the constant banging from the boogies was unsettling.
-positive thought- seat was comfy, acceleration is really good, PIS worked perfectly and they are light and airy.
I was on the 16:18 out of Leeds and everyone bar 2 people had a seat in the leading coach
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Michael Jackson must have experienced something similar in his youth when he sang..."Blame it on the boogie!!!"
Kieran1990
Member
Hilarious!
ashkeba
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So, to sum up, you've no idea but feel free to make things up about people doing their best to travel more healthily. Most cyclists I've seen are quite slick at getting themselves and luggage off trains. It's getting on that is slower, especially when people sit in the bike bay. I would leave tip up seats installed but lock them out of use on off peak trains. The basic problem is running trains too small, not that three bikes take up space of three standees.
The one blocking the cab door should have been moved or ejected, though I don't know what other work the guard had.
Would people also like to make stuff up blaming PRMs for any extended dwells? Or only PRMS who use cycles as "rolling walking sticks"?
Killingworth
Established Member
Bikes on trains are a digession from this thread, but the point here was that on already overcrowded trains, where passengers are sometimes turned away with or without bikes, more carriages are needed of any type, as you've effectively said. In this case the doorways and gangways were already fairly tightly packed when the couple arrived fairly close to departure. The guard was having difficulty getting all the standees aboard and the single cyclist had been an early boarder. He did well not to leave anyone behind as far as I could tell. Having a small dedicated cycle space with tip up seats is liable to provoke strife in times of heavy congestion. (When I travelled on a 195 last month there was no clear outside indication of where cycles should be placed.)
It's not cyclists, hikers (also with big rucksacks) or those bound to Manchester Airport (with large cases) fault that Northern can't put on enough carriages on a Saturday morning. I'd still contend that passengers travelling with large items of any sort may need to pay extra for the space, but that's a challenging issue for another thread now we've all got used to not paying.
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
I would like to draw a comparison to a specific area of buses here, in the referred-to area of the train, are there any signs affixed to the carriage that gives advice, as on buses that I have travelled on, there is an affixed sign in the wheelchair area that is clear in its wording, usually where child buggies occupy that specific space.
a_c_skinner
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But a recentish court case seems to have left all of this in a legal no-man's land. This issue remains, as before, the absolute lack of capacity argue it as we will.
I strongly suspect all of the north of England's new rolling stock will rapidly fill up as overcrowding is supressing ridership. Off topic for this thread esp. TPE but also around Leeds and Manchester on Northern. If we are moving towards carbon neutrality rail is ill prepared for the numbers it will produce.
superkev
Established Member
I hear the 195s may be having difficulty with applying traction on greasy rails. If this is a real problem or just drivers interpreting gearchanges as wheel slip and reducing power I know not. I dont even know if they have any form of traction control.
I seem to remember reading somewhere that some trains (was it the original pacers or the 172s) automatically change up a gear if wheelslip is detected. Anyone any thoughts?
K
I seem to remember reading somewhere that some trains (was it the original pacers or the 172s) automatically change up a gear if wheelslip is detected. Anyone any thoughts?
K
Whilst I personally like the 195s, there are times when I do wonder what's going on. This is what's displaying on 195123 on the 1424 Wigan - Manchester this afternoon. It's also being announced, "This is the Northern service to... The next stop is...," on the PA... 
(Image shows a Passenger Information Screen on unit 195123. The screen is displaying "This is the Northern service to... We will be calling at... " with the word ".... and" scrolling across the bottom.)
(Image shows a Passenger Information Screen on unit 195123. The screen is displaying "This is the Northern service to... We will be calling at... " with the word ".... and" scrolling across the bottom.)
They crew have turned it off altogether now, which is probably for the best. Manual announcements instead.
baldyman26
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Spent a couple of days commuting to Manchester from Liverpool South parkway, yesterday a 2 coach 195 showed up, I think it got to the point where standing room only was an understatement, it was heaving, the guard sounded as though he had had enough to th point where he was asking people to get off for safety reasons... First time on the 195, why given how busy this route is that no overhead grab straps or handles for standing passengers is beyond me... These trains are not smooth, the vibrations are ridiculous, the brakes are too sharp and if I'm honest, the 150/156/158 give a better ride.... Today was better, a 4 coach train this morning however, sitting down I was still shocked by the vibrations from the wheels... No matter what money is spent on new trains, we are simply polishing over the cracks of a rail network not up to standard
Unfortunately there have been multiple instances of 2 coach operation on the Liverpool to Manchester Airport route this week. This is supposed to be 6 coaches at peak time.
themiller
Member
Whilst I personally like the 195s, there are times when I do wonder what's going on. This is what's displaying on 195123 on the 1424 Wigan - Manchester this afternoon. It's also being announced, "This is the Northern service to... The next stop is...," on the PA...
View attachment 70184
(Image shows a Passenger Information Screen on unit 195123. The screen is displaying "This is the Northern service to... We will be calling at... " with the word ".... and" scrolling across the bottom.)
I've just been on 195123 from Lancaster to Barrow in Furness and the system is as Matthew S described!
Yeah. Believe it or not I had it on my return journey last night as well (the 2226 from Man Picc to Wigan).
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
It does appear the PIS is not fit for purpose. Just like most other implementations then...
Jamesrob637
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Like Northern Fail itself?
Wednesday just gone I got a shock when I went to Lime Street for the 21.55 to Oxford Road.
195 002 was on it instead of the usual 142/150/156. That was definitely a one off!
Monday just gone the 18.16 Lime Street to Man Airport was 195 001. Two carriages on a peak time train to the airport. Tut tut!
These services are supposed to be operated by 195/1's, which even with 3 carriages isn't enough, as I found out last month when a got on a Man Airport bound 195/1 at South Parkway which was already standing room only!
195 002 was on it instead of the usual 142/150/156. That was definitely a one off!
Monday just gone the 18.16 Lime Street to Man Airport was 195 001. Two carriages on a peak time train to the airport. Tut tut!
These services are supposed to be operated by 195/1's, which even with 3 carriages isn't enough, as I found out last month when a got on a Man Airport bound 195/1 at South Parkway which was already standing room only!
superkev
Established Member
I cant understand why Northern are apparently short of 195s (also 331s) when edge hill looks full of them
K
I understand the 195s/331s at Edge Hill are still being tested and aren't available for service yet.
aleandrail
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