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How early do you need to arrive at a station where there are level crossings

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C P

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Hi

I arrived at Bentley station in South Yorkshire on the platform 2 side at 1352 this afternoon planning to catch the 1400 to Doncaster. The level crossing had already been down for at least 2 minutes and did not lift up again until well after the train had left.
What are my rights in this situation. Am I entitled to delay repay (not really worth it for this situation). If I had onward advanced tickets, would they still be valid if I missed the train?

Hope this is in the right section

Simon
 
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Mcr Warrior

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Good question! Experienced a similar problem once when the barriers were closed at Poppleton (last stop from the Knaresborough direction before York) which station doesn't have an over bridge or underpass.

Missed the train and ended up having to get a Park & Ride bus to York City centre instead.
 

Bertie the bus

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The problem with Bentley, along with probably other stations including Alsager, is if any trains are delayed the barriers can be down for a significant amount of time. So there is no absolute answer to the question how early do you have to arrive as you could arrive at the same time on consecutive days and catch the train one day and miss it the other.
 

Llanigraham

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That situation can occur at Caersws where the car park is the opposite side of the track to the station entrance. Therefore in my opinion you haven't arrived at the station as you haven't actually entered the station, and therefore delay repay would not apply.
I always aim to get there 10 to 15 minutes before the train is due "just in case".
 

thejuggler

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At Kildwick south of Skipton I'd say half an hour considering they can be down for 50 minutes in an hour!
 

Robertj21a

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Surely, you just need to allow a bit more time. You have no way of knowing whether the gates will be closed for another train anyway.
 

Dr Hoo

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On a double track line with no bridge or subway (or if unable to use because of luggage, buggy, infirmity or whatever) I would aim to allow at least ten minutes to avoid stress. One might still need to use ticket machine on the 'far side' or walk to an offset platform or get to right door for luggage area or seat reservation, lock up bike, etc.

The secret of relaxed travel by any mode is always to allow plenty of spare time. (Not level crossing related, but my Peak District rule of thumb is to allow at least 20 'spare' minutes on any car trip for animals being herded across and along roads, lorries and agricultural vehicles stuck unable to pass, equestrians, temporary traffic lights for minor landslips, etc.)
 

Islineclear3_1

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Very much one of those "it depends" questions....

At most of the stations I know; the barriers are down before the train even arrives at the station and remain down until the train has left

Equally, I know many stations where the train arrives at the station before the barriers go down

I would imagine (and I stand to be corrected...), you wouldn't be able to claim as it isn't the TOC's fault if you can't make it onto the platform on time (in this sort of situation)
 

flitwickbeds

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I would imagine (and I stand to be corrected...), you wouldn't be able to claim as it isn't the TOC's fault if you can't make it onto the platform on time (in this sort of situation)
It could be argued that it is their responsibility to install some form of footbridge/tunnel/manned crossing/ticket machines on both sides/whatever, to allow people to catch their train if the barriers are down...
 

Trainfan344

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Worth contacting the train company surely? Not your fault if you've arrived at the station and allowed the minimum connection time then surely you can't be to blame if you can't physically get to the platform.
 

alxndr

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Is it reasonable to expect a traveller to know whether the station has means of crossing the tracks other than via a level crossing? I would imagine the average person would not think to research such a thing when using a new station. At most they might look at a map to plan their route to the station, but I doubt that even then they'd look to see whether a footbridge or underpass was present or know which platform was "theirs".

How about if the level crossing fails?
 

Belperpete

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Worth contacting the train company surely? Not your fault if you've arrived at the station and allowed the minimum connection time then surely you can't be to blame if you can't physically get to the platform.
Except he didn't arrive at the station on time - he was stopped on the public road at the level crossing before the station.
 

alastair

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This is very relevant at North Camp if you heading to Reading on the fast service (xx56) and using the car park on the east (Ash Vale) side. The fast service to Gatwick is at xx55 and the gates can close 2 or 3 mins before that preventing access to the Reading-bound platform.
 

Belperpete

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Is it reasonable to expect a traveller to know whether the station has means of crossing the tracks other than via a level crossing? I would imagine the average person would not think to research such a thing when using a new station. At most they might look at a map to plan their route to the station, but I doubt that even then they'd look to see whether a footbridge or underpass was present or know which platform was "theirs".
If you go to a station that you are unfamiliar with, leaving it so tight that there is no time to find the entrance, wait to get through the ticket barriers, find the right platform, negotiate a footbridge or underpass, etc. then you are surely setting yourself up to miss the train.
 

Taunton

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This issue was at the heart of the Elsenham level crossing tragedy, gates across between the village and the booking office, and then between the booking office and the train back on the village side.
 

alxndr

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If the crossing fails with the barriers up, then the route could not be cleared and the protecting signal would be held at danger. If the crossing fails with the barriers down, usually, there is a bridge or subway for pedestrians to get to the other side

The state the crossing fails in depends on the circumstances of the failure rather than whether there is an alternative route available. It's entirely possible for the crossing to fail with there being no alternative route. I know people who have been involved in such circumstances and faced with the wrath of the public separated from their train.

If you go to a station that you are unfamiliar with, leaving it so tight that there is no time to find the entrance, wait to get through the ticket barriers, find the right platform, negotiate a footbridge or underpass, etc. then you are surely setting yourself up to miss the train.

I agree, but I'm trying to think like the average traveller. Someone who has never encountered a station without an alternative route might well not even consider the possibility that it will take them more than 2 or 3 minutes at most to navigate from one side to the other of a small rural station (as those described here tend to be).
 

30907

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At Kildwick south of Skipton I'd say half an hour considering they can be down for 50 minutes in an hour!
You'll wait a lot longer than that for a train to stop :)
There was a thread on here about level crossings not so long ago....

Back to the OP: 1352 for 1400 seems reasonable, as its not an exceptionally busy line, so no harm in mailing Northern.
 

Dr Hoo

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The (modal) average traveller will be familiar with ‘their’ station and soon develop a very good idea of how long they need to leave.
This thread is actually about a relatively small sub-set of outliers who might get caught out through what some might consider p155 poor preparation but I keep reminding myself not to project my own experience, gained the hard way at places like Topsham and North Camp, onto others.
 

c52

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In Zurich, to make sure pedestrians don't cross the road against the red little man in order to catch a tram, trams are guaranteed to wait until those who are crossing the road legally are able to catch it. Or that was the case when I was last there - about 1990.
 

AM9

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... I agree, but I'm trying to think like the average traveller. Someone who has never encountered a station without an alternative route might well not even consider the possibility that it will take them more than 2 or 3 minutes at most to navigate from one side to the other of a small rural station (as those described here tend to be).
The 'average traveller' is likely to have been to the station before, unless you are claiming that there are over 60,000 different passengers presenting there every year for the very first time, - as well as having never visited a similarly configured station anywhere else in the lives.
 

AM9

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The 'average traveller' is likely to have been to the station before, unless you are claiming that there are over 60,000 different passengers presenting there every year for the very first time, - as well as having never visited a similarly configured station anywhere else in the lives.
So, having removed the 'average passenger' nonsense, anybody unfamiliar with a departure station just getting near to the station is naive if they expect somebody else to take the blame for their own shortsightedness.
 

Bertie the bus

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This thread is actually about a relatively small sub-set of outliers who might get caught out through what some might consider p155 poor preparation but I keep reminding myself not to project my own experience, gained the hard way at places like Topsham and North Camp, onto others.
No the thread isn't about that at all. The thread is about the crossing at Bentley station and people who know how many footsteps it is to their nearest bus stop have very little to contribute.

Bentley crossing can be closed for over 10 minutes if trains are not running to schedule. If the standard sequence is the barriers open after a southbound but a northbound is running late then the barriers won't open when a local might expect them to. There is also freight on that route which adds to the unpredictability.

I have no idea why some people just have to blame rail users for absolutely everything.
 

SteveyBee131

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Having once lived in Bentley (South Yorkshire), I found myself in a similar position a few times, so the opening poster has my sympathy!

I found I had to be at the crossing no less than 15 minutes before my intended train, just in case! When I did this, in my experience it worked, often with plenty of time, but sometimes only with a couple of minutes spare!
This particular station has no footbridge or subway, so the only way to get to the other platform if the level crossing is closed is a 15 to 20 minutes walk, which I never found worthwhile!
 

Dr Hoo

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Fine. So, with many thanks to those with extensive local knowledge, the ‘answer’ for Bentley (South Yorks) is “15 minutes”.
This does perhaps raise the question as to whether standing information, timetable notes, local signage and so forth should include this helpful advice (and equivalent advice elsewhere with similar situations).
 

Statto

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Try & be at least 15 or 20 minutes before the train you want is due, also look at the full schedules[even real time schedules] so you're not held up by trains going in the opposite direction. It also depends on local knowledge, you might get away if you arrive a little later if you know the area in question
 

Tractor37

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At Cononley, guards on southbound trains towards Leeds & Bradford are suppose to check if there are any passengers delayed by the barriers for their train.
 

Crepello

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At Cononley, guards on southbound trains towards Leeds & Bradford are suppose to check if there are any passengers delayed by the barriers for their train.

Curious - how do they check? And if there are, what do they do?

But back to the OP's question of "what are my rights?" (I think he meant responsibilities) - the train departed on time, and he wasn't on it - albeit delayed reaching the platform by circumstances outside his control. Unfortunate, but hardly the responsibility of the train operator - no different than had his bus run late, or he'd been caught behind an accident.
 

lyndhurst25

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When Penalty Fares were introduced on the Airedale Line, I emailed Northern asking how early a Skipton bound passenger should arrive at Cononley to give time to cross the line twice by the level crossing in order to buy a ticket from the only machine on the other platform. I didn't get a meaningful reply.
 
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