Quick question about Open Train Times

malc-c · 2 Nov 2019

Hopefully this is in the right forum - if not could the mods relocate it ?

On the Open train times website a lot of the black lines representing the track have green segments that seem to move along the tracks even when no train is in that section. Can someone tell me what these green segments mean - the OTT website is seriously lacking in FAQ's or explanations a to what this means

Cheers

RailUK Forums

87 027 · 2 Nov 2019

Don’t the green segments show which way the points are set for junctions? From the help pages, Route Indications section

“Some signalling centres also transmit information on routes set from signals. We show this on our diagrams as a solid green line against the track, with the line representing the route between a pair of signals. This does not necessarily mean the first signal is showing a proceed aspect - only that the signalling system has reported that the route is set.”

https://www.opentraintimes.com/maps/help

malc-c · 2 Nov 2019

Cheers for that. I thought it might be, but couldn't find the information from the main page... thanks for the link

aal7 · 4 Nov 2019

87 027 said:
Don’t the green segments show which way the points are set for junctions? From the help pages, Route Indications section

“Some signalling centres also transmit information on routes set from signals. We show this on our diagrams as a solid green line against the track, with the line representing the route between a pair of signals. This does not necessarily mean the first signal is showing a proceed aspect - only that the signalling system has reported that the route is set.”

https://www.opentraintimes.com/maps/help

Thanks for the link to the help page. I've read it in full. Could you explain what the quarter-circle symbols are such as the one labelled 1489 on the Milton Keynes map?

pdeaves · 4 Nov 2019

aal7 said:
Thanks for the link to the help page. I've read it in full. Could you explain what the quarter-circle symbols are such as the one labelled 1489 on the Milton Keynes map?

ground shunt signals.

aal7 · 5 Nov 2019

pdeaves said:
ground shunt signals.

Thank you. So in the case of 1489 at MKC, what specific moves is it controlling?

pdeaves · 5 Nov 2019

aal7 said:
Thank you. So in the case of 1489 at MKC, what specific moves is it controlling?

I will try to remember to look at a proper signalling plan this evening.

The Planner · 5 Nov 2019

TK1489 has 5 routes off it, to KR9743 (P5) KR9741 (P4) KR5253 (P3) KR9737 (P2) and the bay platform. Basically it allows a shunt move at the south end of the station on the up fast.

66Yorks · 8 Nov 2019

I may be doing something wrong but the screen resolution of the OTT maps on my fruit named phone seem to be too big. Is there anyway to resolve this?

aal7 · 11 Nov 2019

The Planner said:
TK1489 has 5 routes off it, to KR9743 (P5) KR9741 (P4) KR5253 (P3) KR9737 (P2) and the bay platform. Basically it allows a shunt move at the south end of the station on the up fast.

Thanks. So it's basically saying "you may not move any further south that this if you're shunting"?

How does the similar-but-different symbol for 1490 differ in meaning from that of 1489?

ComUtoR · 11 Nov 2019

Look at the direction of travel.

1489
Drive out on the up fast towards 3230
Change ends
1489 signals you back into platforms 5,4,3,2

1490
This is a limit of shunt and allows movement towards it; but no further.

aal7 · 11 Nov 2019

ComUtoR said:
Look at the direction of travel.

1489
Drive out on the up fast towards 3230
Change ends
1489 signals you back into platforms 5,4,3,2

1490
This is a limit of shunt and allows movement towards it; but no further.

Ah, OK. I misunderstood the symbol. To my mind it's pointing north and would be viewed from the north. But what you're saying is that you drive past it, change ends and view it from the south. Its purpose is to allow you to drive north on a line which is only signalled for southbound movements.

So.… if I've understood correctly now, 1468 (at Denbigh Hall South Junction) allows you to leave Bletchley from platform 3 heading north, drive past it, stop, change ends and then drive wrong way (southbound on a northbound line) into the carriage sidings or the flyover?

ComUtoR · 11 Nov 2019

1468 looks to lead to :
R1, R2 (Reception roads ?)
4134 and into 1-11 'Sidings'

But not towards the CE (Carriage Sidings ?) or the Flyover as movements towards 4133 would be in the wrong direction.

Note : I don't sign the area and I'm just reading the map.

aal7 · 11 Nov 2019

ComUtoR said:
1468 looks to lead to :
R1, R2 (Reception roads ?)
4134 and into 1-11 'Sidings'

But not towards the CE (Carriage Sidings ?) or the Flyover as movements towards 4133 would be in the wrong direction.

Note : I don't sign the area and I'm just reading the map.

Thanks. I'm sorry about using the term Carriage Sidings. I mean 1-11 Sidings. And thank you for correcting me on the flyover. I think I understand this a lot better now. I'm grateful to you and The Planner.

ComUtoR · 11 Nov 2019

There are a lot of moves out there that, whilst possible, aren't signaled. Going past that signal from platform 3 makes little sense and would most likely be signaled into Milton Keynes and turned back from there or typically a Driver would challenge the route into Platform 3 if they knew they were going into the sidings.

Reading the maps tend to go hand in hand with a little bit of local route knowledge. Personally I (almost)never refer to anything by North/South/East/West so there are times when I need a map to translate what people post for some areas. With a little time you can read route maps at a glance and you get used to the symbols. You can check the sectional appendix for the key used and there are some Network Rail signal maps that also have a key.

I have no idea why there are 'white' signals but I understand the movements made.

Also, No need to apologize, I'm happy to help.

alxndr · 11 Nov 2019

ComUtoR said:
I have no idea why there are 'white' signals but I understand the movements made.

The "white" signals are where there is no data available on which aspect it is showing. This might be due to it being an auto signal or some other technical reason.

ComUtoR · 11 Nov 2019

Cheers, in my head I was over complicating it

pdeaves · 11 Nov 2019

pdeaves said:
I will try to remember to look at a proper signalling plan this evening.

I have finally found the signalling plan and see that The Planner has answered you exactly right (i.e. there are five possible routes as stated).

malc-c · 5 Mar 2020

87 027 said:
Don’t the green segments show which way the points are set for junctions? From the help pages, Route Indications section

“Some signalling centres also transmit information on routes set from signals. We show this on our diagrams as a solid green line against the track, with the line representing the route between a pair of signals. This does not necessarily mean the first signal is showing a proceed aspect - only that the signalling system has reported that the route is set.”

https://www.opentraintimes.com/maps/help

I noticed that this feature ends at the point signalling is controlled by London Kings Cross - no routing to platforms are show... Does anyone know if this is a feature that will be extended into include the sections controlled by KX ??

Freightmaster · 5 Mar 2020

malc-c said:
I noticed that this feature ends at the point signalling is controlled by London Kings Cross - no routing to platforms are show... Does anyone know if this is a feature that will be extended into include the sections controlled by KX ??

Yes, but only when that area is 'taken over' by York ROC next year.

(older PSBs, such as Kings Cross, Doncaster, Preston, Carlisle, etc, are not able to transmit
signal aspect/route setting info to the data feeds)

MARK

malc-c · 6 Mar 2020

Thanks Mark

Bald Rick · 6 Mar 2020

Freightmaster said:
Yes, but only when that area is 'taken over' by York ROC next year.

(older PSBs, such as Kings Cross, Doncaster, Preston, Carlisle, etc, are not able to transmit
signal aspect/route setting info to the data feeds)

MARK

On a point of order, it is not the age of the signalling location (‘box, PSB, etc) that matters, but the type of train describer (TD) contained within, and whether they can transmit S-Class messages (a technical term, nothing to do with top end Mercedes).

For example, Crewe PSB date from 1985, but has a relatively new train describer, hence routes and signal aspects are transmitted by the TD. Similarly, the Euston part of Wembley Mainline ASC (commissioned 2000) does not have the capability, whereas the Willesden part (commissioned 2001) does.

GB · 8 Mar 2020

Will we get to a stage where maps will also show full track circuits etc. I know signalmaps.co.uk shows TC information at some stations.

66Yorks · 8 Mar 2020

Anyone?

66Yorks said:
I may be doing something wrong but the screen resolution of the OTT maps on my fruit named phone seem to be too big. Is there anyway to resolve this?

Quick question about Open Train Times

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