Flooding disruption around Sheffield and Doncaster (7 November onwards)

Llanigraham · 9 Nov 2019

Let's work through that:

Chew-chew said:
Northern not running any trains between Hull and Doncaster today, only the stopper running from Hull but terminating at Goole.

Could that because the line is under water or damaged?

Still no buses as a replacement, advice still ‘do not travel’.

Are there buses available?
Are the roads open for their routes?
And the advice "do not travel" has come from the emergency services, not from the rail companies.

Hull Trains only running 4 trains today due to engineering work.

And due you expect them to cancel that work?

Loads of people use these Northern services to connect at Doncaster, I still don’t think providing an alternative is good enough.

See above.

RailUK Forums

Robertj21a · 9 Nov 2019

brompton rail said:
Northern’s Hull crews have knowledge of the route via Selby but it isn’t being used. Clearly there is no substitute between Doncaster and Mexborough, however Northern have not sourced buses to serve some or all stations on the route, and, no, the roads are not blocked. No buses Google to Doncaster either, which could be linked by a direct M62/M18 journey, serving Thorne North if required, though access to Stainforth and Kirk Sandall is quite possible. And, no, advice not to travel isn’t appropriate or acceptable in 2019.

Do you know that Northern haven't attempted to source buses ?

johnnychips · 9 Nov 2019

They have a RRB every hour direct from Doncaster to Sheffield and back, run by York Pullman and a Nottinghamshire firm whose name escapes me. This is indicated at Doncaster by an A4 piece of paper stuck on the station door, and not at all at Sheffield.

JKF · 9 Nov 2019

Has there been any impact on preserved lines/sites, Peak Rail/Ecclesbourne/Barrow Hill etc?

JKF · 9 Nov 2019

(Ecclesbourne has no issues & is running having checked their fb page)

yorkie · 9 Nov 2019

Llanigraham said:
And the advice "do not travel" has come from the emergency services, not from the rail companies.

Has anyone said otherwise?

Llanigraham said:
And due you expect them to cancel that work?

Has anyone actually said that?

londonmidland · 9 Nov 2019

Despite EMR’s emergency timetable on the mainline route, services have been chaos all day.

Seems to be having issues recovering itself with delays and cancellations happening all day.

johnnychips · 9 Nov 2019

JKF said:
Has there been any impact on preserved lines/sites, Peak Rail/Ecclesbourne/Barrow Hill etc?

Peak Rail is largely underwater, looking at drone images of Darley Dale. It is seen in this piece about the unfortunate woman who drowned there. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-50360306

tbtc · 9 Nov 2019

Iskra said:
I've only lived in Sheffield 4 years, but it has been the worst, heaviest, most unrelenting rainfall I've ever seen anywhere ...and I've previously lived in Lancashire, the Lake District and the Yorkshire Dales which are all known for their wetness. There is a lot of localised flooding. I'm amazed that there are trains still running.

sheff1 said:
I live close to a tributary of the Don (but up a steep hill ) which flooded in 2007. After that, the riverbed was cleared, vegetation removed from the banks and the channel effectively widened. I believe the same was done on the Don itself in Sheffield. This time the water reached the parapet of the bridge by us but did not overflow. The river also seemed to be flowing a lot faster than I recall from 2007.

Obviously all the water which bypassed our area this time had to go somewhere and it would appear those dowmstream in Rotherham and beyond are the ones who are suffering.

For the benefit of outsiders, Sheffield's problem is that there are a number of steepish valleys that meet here, a fair catchment area of moors/fields, but then a fairly flat valley from the city centre towards the sea (Wicker is only 160ft above sea level, so there's not much of a drop as the water heads from Sheffield to the Humber, which is why Rotherham suffered afterwards and Doncaster is suffering how - the water drains very slowly) - everything converges at Hillsborough (where the Rivelin/ Loxley meet the Don) and by Wicker (where the Sheaf joins the Don) but then struggles to drain away.

Given that Sheffield Midland is built directly above the (tunnelled) Sheaf and that the railway took the path of the canal through central Rotherham (and the railway is next to the Don), you can see why the railway struggles when it gets wet round here

Class 170101 said:
Do Cross Country not sign the route between Altofts Jn and Whitwood Jn then? Their Reading to Newcastle services could run via Barnsley and Castleford avoiding Doncaster and their usual diversionary route via Ferrybridge (not available due to the flooding).

I don't know, but there are a lot of different routes between York and Chesterfield, so I don't know how efficient it is to maintain diversionary knowledge on all of them

Robertj21a said:
Do you know that Northern haven't attempted to source buses ?

Good point - I think that some people assume that bus/coach operators have dozens of vehicles waiting for TOCs to telephone them - Northern may well have tried several bus/coach operators and found that they were struggling to run their committed services on a weekday/ schoolday, given the traffic congestion etc, so didn't have any spare resources. But, sure, people will blame Northern for everything; it's an automatic reaction.

30907 · 9 Nov 2019

Class 170101 said:
do Cross Country not sign the route between Altofts Jn and Whitwood Jn then? Their Reading to Newcastle services could run via Barnsley and Castleford avoiding Doncaster and their usual diversionary route via Ferrybridge (not available due to the flooding).

Realistically, maintaining the hourly service via Leeds (with diversions via the Erewash Valley at first) is probably as much as is realistically possible.

YorksDMU · 10 Nov 2019

On NRE it is suggested that Sheffield to Doncaster may open for the start of services tomorrow, the 11th November, but Rotherham Central may also open tomorrow, but they seem less certain about that station.
All the other closed lines still have no estimated reopening dates.

syorksdeano · 10 Nov 2019

YorksDMU said:
On NRE it is suggested that Sheffield to Doncaster may open for the start of services tomorrow, the 11th November, but Rotherham Central may also open tomorrow, but they seem less certain about that station.
All the other closed lines still have no estimated reopening dates.

Rotherham Central was under quite a lot of water, in fact it was up to platform height

Tracked · 10 Nov 2019

YorksDMU said:
On NRE it is suggested that Sheffield to Doncaster may open for the start of services tomorrow, the 11th November, but Rotherham Central may also open tomorrow, but they seem less certain about that station.
All the other closed lines still have no estimated reopening dates.

Northern Twitter's pinned post about this suggests tomorrow, however looking at their replies they've said the 12th for Rotherham at the earliest.

johnnychips · 10 Nov 2019

Hallelujah! Sheffield display board now shows cancelled trains and RRB, and there is a big sign in Bus Station.

class 9 · 10 Nov 2019

Class 170101 said:
Good to see co-operation happening for a change.

Do Cross Country not sign the route between Altofts Jn and Whitwood Jn then? Their Reading to Newcastle services could run via Barnsley and Castleford avoiding Doncaster and their usual diversionary route via Ferrybridge (not available due to the flooding).

Leeds crews do, but not sure about Newcastle and Derby men, the Leeds bound services were going via Barnsley.
Diverting NCL-RDG services via Castleford and Barnsley would take too long and put them too far out of their paths going south.

Class 170101 · 10 Nov 2019

class 9 said:
Leeds crews do, but not sure about Newcastle and Derby men, the Leeds bound services were going via Barnsley.
Diverting NCL-RDG services via Castleford and Barnsley would take too long and put them too far out of their paths going south.

I was trying to push both services via Barnsley

.

dosxuk · 10 Nov 2019

tbtc said:
Given that Sheffield Midland is built directly above the (tunnelled) Sheaf and that the railway took the path of the canal through central Rotherham (and the railway is next to the Don), you can see why the railway struggles when it gets wet round here

In fact, it's good evidence that the work done after the 2007 floods has actually worked because the station itself used to flood regularly, as soon as the sheaf started backing up. On the down side, it's meant that Rotherham and Doncaster have been harder hit as the water has got there a lot quicker.

LittleAH · 10 Nov 2019

Met Office weather warning for West and South Yorkshire tomorrow. Hopefully not too much more rain into the mix.

johnnychips · 11 Nov 2019

A train set off from Sheffield at about six and is held at Mexborough for half an hour. TPE shown running at 0708 but I have my doubts, so just got x78 in case.

_toommm_ · 11 Nov 2019

The first train was held at Swinton for 40 minutes, and was subsequently delayed between Mexborough and Conisborough. The next train to Doncaster was cancelled due to Overrunning Engineering Works, so I'm guessing the overnight efforts to reopen the track proved a bit more difficult than first seemed. The alternate route via Kilnhurst is still closed though by the looks of the signalling diagrams...

First train through:
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y62776/2019-11-11/detailed
Subsequent cancellation:
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y62834/2019-11-11/detailed

YorksDMU · 11 Nov 2019

Well, NRE says that there is an hourly service running between Doncaster and Sheffield, but is, of course, not serving Rotherham Central. Also an hourly service is running between Hull, Goole and Doncaster, with RRB’s too. I’m wondering why they are not running the class 1 services via Selby today instead of terminating them at Hull. Perhaps they will run from tomorrow, only Rotherham Central is still stated as opening tomorrow.
All of that relies on things going to plan - from the above posts maybe things are not so straightforward....

_toommm_ · 11 Nov 2019

YorksDMU said:
Well, NRE says that there is an hourly service running between Doncaster and Sheffield, but is, of course, not serving Rotherham Central. Also an hourly service is running between Hull, Goole and Doncaster, with RRB’s too. I’m wondering why they are not running the class 1 services via Selby today instead of terminating them at Hull. Perhaps they will run from tomorrow, only Rotherham Central is still stated as opening tomorrow.
All of that relies on things going to plan - from the above posts maybe things are not so straightforward....

It might be a case of route knowledge? IIRC only one service in the evening goes via Selby (although this was like a year ago)

reddragon · 11 Nov 2019

ohgoditsjames said:
Not sure how they can have the audacity to tell people “not to travel”, some people have no choice but to travel and their only option is the train. I’m sure if people could just drop their travel plans at the top of a hat they’d never use trains again.
.

So the railway is blocked by flooding and the roads are blocked by flooding, what do you suggest? Rail replacement hovercraft service?

Robertj21a · 11 Nov 2019

reddragon said:
So the railway is blocked by flooding and the roads are blocked by flooding, what do you suggest? Rail replacement hovercraft service?

Quite. I'm constantly amazed by some people on these forums.

YorksDMU · 11 Nov 2019

Unfortunately a yellow warning for yet more heavy rain, up to 30mm, widely, is now in place, from the MetOffice, for Thursday across all of these areas. I’m seeing yet more flooding, especially with up to 60mm on the higher ground, i.e. the Pennines. I hope one day it may stop raining...
I hope all the affected lines will not be too badly impacted, I guess time will tell.

reddragon · 11 Nov 2019

Robertj21a said:
Quite. I'm constantly amazed by some people on these forums.

Berney Arms once needed a rail replacement boat!

1D53 · 11 Nov 2019

Rotherham now expected to reopen Thursday.

johnnychips · 11 Nov 2019

The main line is affecting by signalling problems between Conisbrough and Mexborough, limiting the services to two trains per hour. The TPE is running curtailed at Piccadilly, the stopper running curtailed at Doncaster rather than Adwick.

1D53 · 11 Nov 2019

johnnychips said:
The main line is affecting by signalling problems between Conisbrough and Mexborough, limiting the services to two trains per hour. The TPE is running curtailed at Piccadilly, the stopper running curtailed at Doncaster rather than Adwick.

Can't shunt at Adwick as the Skellow branch is flooded so have to terminate at Doncaster.

YorksDMU · 12 Nov 2019

Good morning, and this is the latest from NRE:

No trains at Rotherham Central.

There is no road replacement available to call at Rotherham Central due to local road closures.

Customers are advised NOT TO TRAVEL, as the earliest estimate for the line to reopen at Rotherham is Wednesday 13 November.

Bentley & Adwick

A reduced service will operate to and from Bentley and Adwick. The Sheffield - Adwick trains will not be calling at these stations.

Customers are advised to travel on the hourly Leeds to Doncaster services.

Flooding disruption around Sheffield and Doncaster (7 November onwards)

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