-
Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Northern 170s - Harrogate branch
- Thread starter Seehof
- Start date
- Status
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
samuelmorris
Established Member
I seem to recall hearing the short distances between stops was causing them major reliability issues and that they were to be moved elsewhere to lines better suited to them.
Class 170101
Established Member
- Joined
- 1 Mar 2014
- Messages
- 7,937
If this is true than thats good to hear I could never understand why a 100mph regional unit would be put on suburban, regular stops working.
Hopefully they will go to routes like York to Blackpool / Preston or Newcastle to Carlisle.
When the line is not flooded, they are still working Bridlington, Hull and Sheffield. Some appear on the Hull to York service too. But it’s sad about the Harrogate line, but reliability will have to come first. Maybe they will reappear on the Selby to Leeds service, or Leeds to Carlisle. I’m just taking an educated guess with those two services....
They’re having a couple of reliability issues at the moment. Also they were used exclusively on the Harrogate line and the 2 Leeds to Selby diagrams so there was more than enough 170s to go round. Now they run on the Sheffield to Bridlington as well as the Harrogate line and sometimes York to Hull they’re more stretched. I think the plan going forward to to leave them where they are with 195s going on the York to Blackpool shortly as well as Leeds to Nottingham and Lincoln in December. Leeds to Carlisle will stay as 158s for now
PHILIPE
Veteran Member
There has been a recent short thread about this with link to another one:-
https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...ogate-line-at-the-minute.191868/#post-4196327
https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...ogate-line-at-the-minute.191868/#post-4196327
Prestige15
On Moderation
I do believe the 170 would be a better place on the Leeds-Chester/Nottingham line, For some reason it seems a perfect line for them concidering is a long distance semi fast service. Cant see that happening in the end but it would be nice.
The Bridlington - Hull - Doncaster - Sheffield service is a long distance semi-fast service.
Prestige15
On Moderation
^ that along with it....
superkev
Established Member
The issue of un suitability of 170s on slow lines like the Harrogate line was discussed on somewhere on this forum earlier.
The 60mph max line speed is less than the gear change point so the units never get out of low (torque convertor) gear.
When introduced on the Harrogate lines fuel and oil consumption was reported to be massive and with 100mph gearing and greater weight acceleration inferior to previous units. Prob better places to utilise them although not much of Northerns dmu network allows much over 60mph running.
K
Shaw S Hunter
Established Member
This is an important point and begs the question as to where on the network nationally would be a good fit for them. I'm not sure there are many obvious candidates. It would not surprise me if the 170s end up having rather shorter lives than the 156s and 158s as a result.
TVLUser
Member
Basically anywhere where mostly >70mph running exists is ideal for 170 running, preferably closer to 100mph, as somewhere around 70mph is the point (I believe) the units leave first gear. Sadly, a number of the lines they were very much designed for have been electrified now.
Unfortunately, it will be highly unlikely they'll go anywhere near Newcastle-Carlisle (even though they would be preferable to 158s). We're only 65mph max.
superkev
Established Member
I always thought as well as existing Sheffield Hull Bridlington the Leeds Nottingham, Leeds Sheffield, Leeds York and the new Halifax Hull where suitable east side 170 candidates.
Best solution would be for Network rail to be dragged kicking and screaming to increase the fairly straight Harrogate overall line speed (why is it only 60mph). Alternatively re gear them to say 80mph for better acceleration or ,longer term convert them to 172 6 speed transmission.
K
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I think this would be a better plan - or swap them with 195s to use them on Northern Connect services. 100mph hydraulic transmission DMUs waste a lot of fuel on stop-start low speed routes.
I love having the 170s on the Harrogate line - they're one of the few (commuter) trains I can get a comfortable seat on - just enough legroom, and the window positioned nicely that my shoulder gets space there too. I laugh at all the threads on here which try to discuss the view out of the windows, the problems with ironing boards etc - these people have never suffered the contortions of trying to get their legs to do what some interior designers thinks they ought to be capable of. Once I've figured a strange perch on their seats, most other trains usually give me back-ache for the day.
But in terms of suitability, isn't the main point that these hand-me-downs are no longer expected to do a main-line 100mph job? That newer traction gets those jobs, while these are shunted off to smaller line commuter duties?
In which case, I tend to agree that re-gearing would be the best answer, to help adapt to a new role. It is either that or accept that Northern, as the basket-case that gets the nation's cast-offs, is always going to end up having to run unsuitable stock in imperfect ways.
To answer the OP's original question - yes, the proportion of services run by 170s does seem to have reduced these last few weeks. However, it doesn't seem to be consistent about which diagram gets swapped out - suggesting it is more a reaction to insufficient stock rather than a deliberate plan. yet.
But in terms of suitability, isn't the main point that these hand-me-downs are no longer expected to do a main-line 100mph job? That newer traction gets those jobs, while these are shunted off to smaller line commuter duties?
In which case, I tend to agree that re-gearing would be the best answer, to help adapt to a new role. It is either that or accept that Northern, as the basket-case that gets the nation's cast-offs, is always going to end up having to run unsuitable stock in imperfect ways.
To answer the OP's original question - yes, the proportion of services run by 170s does seem to have reduced these last few weeks. However, it doesn't seem to be consistent about which diagram gets swapped out - suggesting it is more a reaction to insufficient stock rather than a deliberate plan. yet.
theblackwatch
Established Member
- Joined
- 15 Feb 2006
- Messages
- 10,713
I've seen/travelled on 170s on the Harrogate line on the last 3 days - they certainly haven't moved away! There seem to be one or two more 158s around than before, but that will be because they have been released from Calder Valley work with the introduction of 195s.
ChrisC
Established Member
East Midlands Railway are planning on getting rid of all their 153’s, 156’s and 158’s and only using 170’s for all local services. They will be ok for whatever is left of the Liverpool to Norwich service but EMR may have problems with them on many of their stopping services with frequent stops. I can’t see them keeping to time on stopping services between Nottingham and Lincoln or Nottingham and Worksop. Unfortunately, these days what is happening on the Harrogate line will not be taken into consideration.
I’ve just had a look at the new timetable for the Hull to Leeds and Halifax service, and after Selby it’s an all station’s service. I hope, when the 170’s are used on it that they will be able to get out of first gear, and not have the kind of problems they’ve had on that Harrogate service.
Failed Unit
Established Member
they have covered all the EMR routes in the last under central trains. Don’t recall them causing problems.
likewise the Fife circle is hardly high speed with long distances between stops.
the problems on Harrogate seem a little odd considering routes they already work on.
Last edited:
- Status