• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Train stations forced to 'beg' for toilet paper and bin bags

Status
Not open for further replies.

47271

Established Member
Joined
28 Apr 2015
Messages
2,983
Front page of today's Herald.

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/18027522.train-stations-forced-beg-toilet-paper-bin-bags/

I don't have any particular comment to make on this, but I thought that it was worth posting since it's the top story in today's Herald.

TRAIN station chiefs are being forced to send out “begging messages” to colleagues for toilet roll, bin bags and other supplies after loss-making ScotRail slapped a restriction on orders.

The Herald has seen a series of emails and internal messages, sent over the past 11 days, requesting help to cover for the inability to obtain deliveries, with staff claiming they are not being approved.

Staff at one station in Cupar, Fife, have even suggested they might have to close their public toilets as they could not get paper towels.


Other items which stations have requested help as they are unable to order them include bleach, toilet cleaner and printer ink.

The issue arose after ScotRail chiefs decided to cut back on station supply orders to reduce costs.

RMT union’s regional organiser, Mick Hogg, said he was “surprised and shocked” by the development and that he was taking the matter up with ScotRail management.

A message circulated to stations and booking offices in the north of Glasgow in August, seen by The Herald, spelt out the restrictions.


“As you are all aware we are trying to save money across the company, stores order is the focus of this at the moment,” the message said.

“I know a lot of stations have recently submitted new stores order, however, can you now please resubmit these orders and reduce in half from initial order.

“We need to be more economical with our supplies, I know this is going to mean certain stations will then be short of certain items – where this is the case, please contact neighbouring stations and utilise what stock they have.

“I can’t emphasise enough the need to be working together around this, I know it will be challenging.

“No one station owns any supplies, the whole Glasgow North area must work collaboratively.”

Details of the staff concerns come a matter of weeks after a failed attempt to strip franchise-holder Abellio of its contract.

A parliamentary bid to end Abellio’s franchise three years early failed last night amid bad-tempered exchanges between SNP and Scottish Labour politicians at the beginning of October.


And, last month, ScotRail was accused of cutting back on toilet paper and soap on its trains by its main union.

Workers say the train company was pinching – rather than spending – pennies across its trains and stations in a desperate attempt to break even.

The RMT, which represents rail staff, claimed the savings include essentials for train toilets, which will be closed more frequently as a result.

ScotRail refused to comment on the claims but said toilets on trains and stations had been deemed satisfactory by inspectors. Mr Hogg said they were aware of supply shortages but there had since been an agreement that this would be addressed and there would be “no repeat”.

“This is why I am disappointed if it is still the case,” he said. “It is not acceptable with a big company like ScotRail.”

Now The Herald can reveal that stations have been seeking help from other stations over shortages.

On Wednesday one email sent to all North Clyde stations said: “Hi guys. I know it’s a long shot but does anyone have any spare toilet tissues they could send to Milngavie?”

Some booking offices and stations have begun joking about the situation.
In one message, a booking officer asked: “Anybody got any paper?”; another replied: “Trade you for Sellotape.”

Another interjected: “I’ll trade you a blue pen, a red pen and a bottle of Tippex.”


Another internal message that was seen by the whole of ScotRail from October 28 from a ticket examiner asked why there are no hand towels, soap and toilet paper in most of the station staff rest areas in and around Glasgow.

One Glasgow station booking office responded: “In order to save the company money. Stations never got a stores order last month."

The examiner responded: “That is a disgrace, surely we have the right to basic hygiene products whilst at work...”

An email from a west Dunbartonshire station to others in the north Clyde area, from October 27, also made an urgent request for help.

“Sorry folks but again I need to ask if anyone has any spare toilet rolls or hand towels they could possibly send to us...as due to stores delivery running late we are on the verge of running out... which as you know is a main bothy for drivers and ticket examiners. Any help on this matter would be greatly appreciated.”


One long-serving train station customer service officer said the requests were “no joke” and believed they were the result of the stores restrictions.

“These are serious requests,” he said. “It is getting ridiculously embarrassing.

“What happens is this, we request our toilet tissue, pens, printer paper etc from a stores manager, that requisition, if approved, is then sent to fulfill the order. Stations are not getting the stores requested because the orders are not being approved so the requisition is not forwarded for fulfilment.


“It is down to Scotrail. “

Abellio ScotRail’s made a pre-tax loss of £17.9 million in their last set of accounts for the year to December, 2017 - its biggest deficit since taking over the franchise in April, 2015.

Abellio, the Dutch transport operator, won a ten-year ScotRail tender contract, replacing Firstgroup. The Abellio Scotrail subsidiary set up to run the franchise made a profit of more than £12 million in the 2015 calendar year, followed by a loss of £2.7 million the next year.

The Scottish Government, however, has given the company official warnings in the past on its performance.

ScotRail said that essential items such as toilet roll and cleaning products “remain a priority” and that nowhere in the business is expected to function with them.

A ScotRail spokesman said: “ScotRail values each and every member of staff and we are absolutely committed to ensuring they have the best possible working environment.

“Like any business, we are always looking to improve efficiency. All of our stations have supplies and we are working hard to ensure that we get the right balance of provisions across the country."
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Deltic1961

Member
Joined
30 May 2018
Messages
645
Twitter feed always has people complaining the toilets on the trains are always out of order. Possibly related but not really acceptable.
 

Aictos

Established Member
Joined
28 Apr 2009
Messages
10,403
Thing is there is a difference between excess ordering and ordering just what you need but also there is a difference between ordering the usual supplies and finding out you're running out each month simply because your stores are being used at other locations and ordering in bulk for a short period of time then just ordering enough to top each following the period.

No location should need to beg for stores such as toilet rolls etc, yes there is always a need for efficiency but this shouldn't mean that the basics have to be begged for from neighbouring locations, it seems to be poor management that's responsible for this mess.
 

Deltic1961

Member
Joined
30 May 2018
Messages
645
There certainly seems to be a disconnect between ticket prices and the overall service received by customers. Broken franchise system overall.
 

Carlisle

Established Member
Joined
26 Aug 2012
Messages
4,134
Or take a PRM train out of service...
Since when’s it been illegal to run a train without working toilets providing there’s still some locations for toilet stops, even if one has to transfer toilet roll from train to station
 

Mag_seven

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
1 Sep 2014
Messages
10,033
Location
here to eternity
In the Czech Republic I have been to a station where they will not let you in to the station toilet unless you purchase sheets of loo paper beforehand.
 

Islineclear3_1

Established Member
Joined
24 Apr 2014
Messages
5,836
Location
PTSO or platform depending on the weather
Since when’s it been illegal to run a train without working toilets providing there’s still some locations for toilet stops, even if one has to transfer toilet roll from train to station

Forgive my ignorance but I said nothing about the "illegality" of taking a PRM train out of service...

I was simply responding to trainophile's comment tongue in cheek.... Simply hoping a PRM train won't be taken out of service due to no loo roll...

I encounter many train stations (and trains) without loo roll BTW
 

PG

Established Member
Joined
12 Oct 2010
Messages
2,852
Location
at the end of the high and low roads
I would hope, now that the RMT union and the press are aware of this issue, that management will see sense and ensure staff have access to supplies.

What's the coding to use when a train is cancelled due to unavailability of driver or guard as they've soiled their clothing because of lack of loo roll? :oops:
 

LWB

Member
Joined
31 Dec 2009
Messages
241
Most women carry tissues. Perhaps men should start doing the same!

Clearly needs must when the need is upon you but ‘tissues’ are made of significantly different paper to toilet paper. Attempts to flush them, as with baby wipes, end in blocked plumbing
 

AndyHudds

Member
Joined
17 Jun 2012
Messages
534
In the Czech Republic I have been to a station where they will not let you in to the station toilet unless you purchase sheets of loo paper beforehand.

Blokes? Do you have to specify the nature of your call on entering? Sounds a bit undignified.
 

grid56126

Member
Joined
4 Sep 2011
Messages
295
Most women carry tissues. Perhaps men should start doing the same!
I have for many years. Initially after early travels in Poland and Czecho, but a small pack of moist wipes and hand gel are a staple part of packing for every rail related trip these days. I am no germophile but every button you press or handle touched are used by numerous people equally unable to wash their hands due to no water being present as Myself.
 

Iskra

Established Member
Joined
11 Jun 2014
Messages
7,943
Location
West Riding
So basically, they do have enough supplies, but some stations have blown the budget by over-ordering and sitting on surplus stock. They are saying that that surplus stock, although in the wrong locations, should be run down before they allow any more fresh orders.

So it's nowhere near as bad as the headlines make out.

However, this is basic stock/cost management that simply isn't happening, for which Scotrail are ultimately accountable. Pretty embarrassing.
 

philthetube

Established Member
Joined
5 Jan 2016
Messages
3,762
The newspaper mentions no paper available in staff rest areas. I find that difficult to believe as there ave not been mass cancellations as staff go home to do their stuff.
 

Lemmy99uk

Member
Joined
5 May 2015
Messages
459
Wow, talk about a slow news day!

This thing has been going on for years (I even remember it in BR days). There are cycles of feast and famine as procurement and financial policies change.

I recall an period at a certain TOC in the not too distant past where it was discovered that some facilities were ordering twice as much as others of a similar size. On investigation it transpired that some locations were stockpiling enormous amounts of cleaning materials (one single manned station I visited with no public toilet had about 500 loo rolls in a giant walk in cupboard along with mops and buckets in double figures!)

Consequently, a period followed were all stores orders had to be authorised by the local manager and some items were redistributed from the hoarders.

There were howls of anguish from some staff who could no longer get everything they wanted immediately and rumours circulated that the company had failed to pay its bills.

There’s not much new under the sun.
 

hooverboy

On Moderation
Joined
12 Oct 2017
Messages
1,372
So basically, they do have enough supplies, but some stations have blown the budget by over-ordering and sitting on surplus stock. They are saying that that surplus stock, although in the wrong locations, should be run down before they allow any more fresh orders.

So it's nowhere near as bad as the headlines make out.

However, this is basic stock/cost management that simply isn't happening, for which Scotrail are ultimately accountable. Pretty embarrassing.
from a health and safety perspective surplus stock should automatically be reallocated to places that have run out.
not run down.

assuming scotrail is responsible for the stations in question.
 

hooverboy

On Moderation
Joined
12 Oct 2017
Messages
1,372
Wow, talk about a slow news day!

This thing has been going on for years (I even remember it in BR days). There are cycles of feast and famine as procurement and financial policies change.

I recall an period at a certain TOC in the not too distant past where it was discovered that some facilities were ordering twice as much as others of a similar size. On investigation it transpired that some locations were stockpiling enormous amounts of cleaning materials (one single manned station I visited with no public toilet had about 500 loo rolls in a giant walk in cupboard along with mops and buckets in double figures!)

Consequently, a period followed were all stores orders had to be authorised by the local manager and some items were redistributed from the hoarders.

There were howls of anguish from some staff who could no longer get everything they wanted immediately and rumours circulated that the company had failed to pay its bills.

There’s not much new under the sun.
the deluge of health and safety legislation that must be complied with is certainly new,compared to BR days.

no way in hell that's tolerated now.
getting off with an official warning is getting off lightly these days, more likely it will result in a civil action /corporate negligence lawsuit for ill health/hurt feelings etc etc.
 

LowLevel

Established Member
Joined
26 Oct 2013
Messages
7,603
Without naming locations or companies I've known it both ways. One location (now no longer in operation) had a stockpile of cleaning stuff located in a basically unused staff disabled toilet. Every now and then it would get too much and 'disappear'.

I've also known cases where train guards have had to smuggle in stock like bin liners at the unofficial behest of local managers due to issues with getting authorisation for orders.

It's all a bit silly really.
 

DarloRich

Veteran Member
Joined
12 Oct 2010
Messages
29,301
Location
Fenny Stratford
So basically, they do have enough supplies, but some stations have blown the budget by over-ordering and sitting on surplus stock. They are saying that that surplus stock, although in the wrong locations, should be run down before they allow any more fresh orders.

So it's nowhere near as bad as the headlines make out.

However, this is basic stock/cost management that simply isn't happening, for which Scotrail are ultimately accountable. Pretty embarrassing.

Seems to be the correct answer.
 

Clip

Established Member
Joined
28 Jun 2010
Messages
10,822
So basically, they do have enough supplies, but some stations have blown the budget by over-ordering and sitting on surplus stock. They are saying that that surplus stock, although in the wrong locations, should be run down before they allow any more fresh orders.

So it's nowhere near as bad as the headlines make out.

However, this is basic stock/cost management that simply isn't happening, for which Scotrail are ultimately accountable. Pretty embarrassing.


Surprised it took this long for the correct answer to appear.

I used to have some stations that had mountains of stuff when I joined one TOC and used to freely order every month when they didnt need too so that all stopped and a central stores was created and then the cleaner would take what was needed to refill anything. Saved thousands and also reduced theft of stuff too.
 

bussnapperwm

Established Member
Joined
18 May 2014
Messages
1,510
Most women carry tissues. Perhaps men should start doing the same!

I've taken to taking a pack of bog roll I half inched from a premier inn cleaner whenever I travel on WMR, another Abellio because half the time their 172s are completely devoid of the stuff.

Hell, The 350s are just as bad at times too!
 

DarloRich

Veteran Member
Joined
12 Oct 2010
Messages
29,301
Location
Fenny Stratford
the deluge of health and safety legislation that must be complied with is certainly new,compared to BR days.

no way in hell that's tolerated now.
getting off with an official warning is getting off lightly these days, more likely it will result in a civil action /corporate negligence lawsuit for ill health/hurt feelings etc etc.


from a health and safety perspective surplus stock should automatically be reallocated to places that have run out.
not run down.

assuming scotrail is responsible for the stations in question.

What on earth are you talking about?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top