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158s on West Highland Line?
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GrimShady
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So we're a year on from the last post. What is the latest on WHL 158s?
I have a funny feeling it's another broken ScotRail promise.
I have a funny feeling it's another broken ScotRail promise.
hexagon789
Veteran Member
I thought with the 153 conversions, the 158 cascade had been scrapped? At least for now.
My understanding is that ScotRail asked ScoGov to vary the franchise so as to omit the 158s, but were turned down. However, until all the HSTs arrive (!) I wouldn't have thought that there would be any available. But the works on the line to clear it for the 153s extend to the 158 also.
snookertam
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More than that, 158s are currently banned from the west highland line due to the platforms. Until that issue could be sorted, if at all, they wont be going there.
That's the works I was referring to. I've seen a schedule of the dates by which each section is down to be cleared. AIRC, the whole route to Oban by May.
We've had a couple of w/e closures of the Oban branch and Craigendoran to Crianlarich is closed today.
We've had a couple of w/e closures of the Oban branch and Craigendoran to Crianlarich is closed today.
snookertam
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Ah right sorry, didn't catch what you meant there. Although the work being carried out might be the usual winterisation work which gets done annually.
I don't think tge West Highlands need any workto bring winter to them
Fisherman80
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As much as I love the 156s, there is no way I would be able to handle sat on one for 5 and a half hours from Glasgow to Mallaig.
I think I would be able to handle being on a 158 for that amount of time.
It really is about time the West Highland Line was given a decent service from Glasgow to Fort William. 2 hourly intervals would be great for a start but the 156s,after 31 years of service over the route,really do need to go.
Again I would be happy with a 158,but the Scottish Government really does need to pull their finger out and fully exploit this line.
I think I would be able to handle being on a 158 for that amount of time.
It really is about time the West Highland Line was given a decent service from Glasgow to Fort William. 2 hourly intervals would be great for a start but the 156s,after 31 years of service over the route,really do need to go.
Again I would be happy with a 158,but the Scottish Government really does need to pull their finger out and fully exploit this line.
GrimShady
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Exactly!
Have you tried the recent 156 refurb? They have acutely managed to make the interior worse!
What they need is a follow on of HST refurbs as even the scenic 158s are pretty naff tbh.
Fisherman80
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The prime reason I have never travelled the full length of the West Highland is purely down to the 156s and a sparse service.
In my opinion,if the 158s are not a bad idea IF they are properly refurbished.
Having travelled on a fair few Northern 158s, I would have to say the 3 car versions have the most comfortable seats,not the ironing board types.
Surely it can not be that hard for a 2 hourly service!
snookertam
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There has been some suggestion of a revamp to the West Highland Line timetable in the pipeline. Whether this becomes as you suggest is another matter entirely though. I think four day time trains in each direction, similar to the Far North line, may be more likely. Whilst Fort William itself has a population of 10,000, you'd be lucky if anywhere else on the route had a population of even 1,000, save for maybe Garelochhead (which is a short drive to Helensburgh anyway) and Spean Bridge.
West of Corpach - which would be included within the Fort William population above - there's pretty much no meaningful settlement until Arisaig. Whilst the railway does serve the local populace, there's very few people there, and so running trains back and forth every two hours won't really be much good to anyone. And that's before you work out fitting them all in on the single line, and all competing for radio time on the RETB system. And running too many trains on the Mallaig extension in the summer (There's already six per day each way in summer if you include the steam trains) actually runs the risk of over tourism like has been seen with the North Coast 500.
So to answer your question, not only would a two hourly service be quite a challenge, it's not necessarily the case that it would be worthwhile. Oban currently has six trains per day, and the rail service is comparable to road in terms of journey times. That level of service is, arguably, quite generous.
Fisherman80
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What I am trying to say snookertam is the Glasgow to Fort William service really is inadequate. I'm leaving aside the Oban branch and Mallaig extension.
Not including the sleeper,3 trains per day really isn't good enough during the summer months.
It maybe adequate during the winter,but when it comes to the summer tourist season the service should be much much better.
I'm sure some tweaking with the infrastructure would make it possible.
But back on the subject of this thread, I do believe a 158 is a step up from a 156 for such a long journey.
sprinterguy
Established Member
It's incredible to note that the class 156s have been the primary passenger stock on the West Highland line longer than pretty much any class in the line's history. You've got to go back to the Reid "Glen" 4-4-0s of 1913 before you find a class of comparable longevity overall, and they didn't have a monopoly on daytime passenger services for anywhere near the same amount of time or to the same extent as the 156s.
haggishunter
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One of the biggest issues with the 156s is the single toilet per unit - it’s just wholly inadequate and when units are running singularly it’s too many ways to end up with no toilet.
One advantage of the refurb 156s over the 158s is the 240v vs usb power sockets. A lot comes down to the specifics of the fit out, the Inverness based 158s that do the North lines would be a meaningful improvement, but since the 156 refresh I make a beeline for the airline seats now.
On the old seats they were useless to do anything on the seat back table. I know seats are subjective but sat on the ironing board seats and old style seats in the space of one journey the other week and definitely prefer the new ones, better shape and more supportive. Don’t shoot me !
Another thing was the 156s being ice boxes - the heating seems better so far, this morning would have been a good test! But the carriages should have been fitted with power doors for vestibules / between carriagesZ
Ultimately though whatever stock, the trains aren’t long enough or frequent enough. With 6 car constraints the joining / splitting needs to end.
One advantage of the refurb 156s over the 158s is the 240v vs usb power sockets. A lot comes down to the specifics of the fit out, the Inverness based 158s that do the North lines would be a meaningful improvement, but since the 156 refresh I make a beeline for the airline seats now.
On the old seats they were useless to do anything on the seat back table. I know seats are subjective but sat on the ironing board seats and old style seats in the space of one journey the other week and definitely prefer the new ones, better shape and more supportive. Don’t shoot me !
Another thing was the 156s being ice boxes - the heating seems better so far, this morning would have been a good test! But the carriages should have been fitted with power doors for vestibules / between carriagesZ
Ultimately though whatever stock, the trains aren’t long enough or frequent enough. With 6 car constraints the joining / splitting needs to end.
haggishunter
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An update to the above - having been on a WHL refurb 156 this evening. It wasn’t cold or unpleasant but definitely on the cool side, leading me to think if it was colder outside then it would have become unpleasant onboard. The issue is the fact that though doors are at the end there’s not closed vestibules and between unit gangways are always open (and people never shut the internal unit manual doors).
Not as bad as the 170s in an exposed station in winter, but each time leaving the station or accelerating a surge of cold air gets pushed through the saloon. 158s won’t get rid of the underfloor engine noise, but proper vestibules with automatic doors putting a barrier between the outside doors and gangways and the passenger saloons would be a considerable improvement.
For as long as they remain the lack of such doors on the 156s was a big omission from the refurb.
Not as bad as the 170s in an exposed station in winter, but each time leaving the station or accelerating a surge of cold air gets pushed through the saloon. 158s won’t get rid of the underfloor engine noise, but proper vestibules with automatic doors putting a barrier between the outside doors and gangways and the passenger saloons would be a considerable improvement.
For as long as they remain the lack of such doors on the 156s was a big omission from the refurb.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
156s have had manual vestibule doors since they were built, but nobody ever closes them for some reason. In Germany you'd get a proper stare for not doing so.
ScotRail ran for years with no vestibule doors fitted and have only refitted them in the last 5 years.
The heating on refurbished 156 units is awful and there have been plenty of complaints from WHL crews this week on internal work forums about the "freezing" conditions. The refurb job was done on the cheap and it shows! Driving cab heaters are no better and struggle to compete with the numerous draughts coming in under the desk, gangway door and windows!
At least one of the refurb 156s I was on last week didn’t have any vestibule doors.
I personally don’t see anything wrong with the 156 for the WHL per se. They ride extremely well, have decent windows and seat alignment etc.
However, the ScotRail refurb, whilst an improvement on the SPT set I travelled on a few years ago, isn’t great.
I did Oban-Crianlarich return, and the ironing board seats were starting to give me back ache by Taynuilt on the outbound journey. The thought of doing Glasgow to Mallaig on one made me shudder.
As others have mentioned it wasn’t particularly warm and I did notice that on 156500 all of the lighting diffusers were being held in place by zip ties.
It’s not horrific, and it’s possibly better than the Northern 156 refurb, but it isn’t as good as it should be.
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