It also means I can't use the new capping touch on/touch off as I may have to delay my trip home if the next one is a Burnley Bus.
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What bus operators are still using ticket machines other than Ticketer ticket machines?
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It also means I can't use the new capping touch on/touch off as I may have to delay my trip home if the next one is a Burnley Bus.
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They had to split the investment across two financial years as it’s a big outlay, so did Yorkshire first and then are doing Lancashire next.
Rosso already had Ticketer before being purchased by Transdev, probably bought back when Ticketer was seen as something only for smaller independents and the big groups kept with the more traditional manufacturers.
Does that mean it's coming soon?
It's 19 months since they introduced contactless on my other routes.
https://twitter.com/keighleybus/status/977807389809430528?s=19
Tom B
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I bought a contactless ticket on a First Mainline ticketer unit a while ago. It took longer than cash! I went up and touched my card on the reader, it rejected it. The driver had to enter the details of the ticket being sold, then asking me to touch the card, finally issuing a paper ticket!! . If you're going to get any benefit from contactless (in efficiency and speed), it should be done properly in my view.
That's generally how it works.... You don't just run on the bus and slap your card on the machine expecting it to just spew out any old ticket. You get on, ask the driver for whatever ticket you need then put your card on the machine. It's just as quick as cash if you do it properly.
56131 EllColl
Member
Scottish Citylink operators I think use same VIX machines as Stagecoach, which has vested interest in Scottish Citylink. Of course there are numerous operators for Scottish Citylink, a major one happening to be Stagecoach.
Wow, that quick?! Anywhere that takes transport seriously has removed the need for a time wasting conversation with the driver.
Goldfish62
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The first time I used contactless on Ticketer I was caught out by the fact that you have to hold the card on/near the reader for some time before the ticket issues. The ERG machines on Stagecoach are definitely quicker.
MedwayValiant
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Please can you tell this to some of the Arriva drivers in Kent!
Now that tickets have a QR code on them, a day ticket or a return ticket just needs to be placed on the reader, the machine beeps, and off you go. Except that a handful of the drivers insist on inspecting the ticket visually as well, and tearing it in half if it's a return rather than a day ticket. Some others insist on knowing where you're going if it's a day ticket that you present.
Yes OK, I suppose it's possible to over-ride if you scan a day ticket that's only valid for part of your journey - but that sort of thing has always been possible and it's not really the driver's problem. In the unlikely event that an inspector appears then it's for him to deal with. Otherwise, your ticket will fail when you attempt the return journey and you'll need to buy another one.
Does the system "know" only to accept a return half once? If not and it would be possible to re-use it, that's a programming issue that ought to be addressed - but if it does, then requiring you to hand the ticket over and tearing it in half is just wasting time.
If a day ticket is possibly only valid half way, and you don't have to 'tap out' then the machine has no way of know it's valid so it's a manual process. I suspect the Ticketer system isn't going to be communicating the details of every paper ticket use back to base regularly (if at all) so it's not a programming issue, just an issue of the cost in terms of data processing and communication (Do you want to be hanging around whilst the machine attempts to communicate with a central server and wait for the result?). Manually invalidating the ticket is a perfectly good way of handling that given that there's next to zero cost involved.
Eyersey468
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No it can only tell if the ticket has been scanned within a certain amount of time, so someone could get off one bus and use it again later on if it hasn't been ripped.
callumowen
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Go South Coast, as an example, will only print QR codes on day tickets for this very reason. Return tickets are validated manually by the driver and punched with an integrated hole punch, in order to still count passenger usage for trips.
Goldfish62
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But surely if it's detected that the ticket has already been scanned that's good enough to indicate an attempt is being made to reuse it. Or am I misunderstanding?
philthetube
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Especially on rural routes or fast roads I always liked to know where passengers were getting off, just makes it easier as a driver.
Eyersey468
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Sorry if I wasn't explaining very well. It will only detect if the ticket has been scanned within about a couple of minutes of it having been scanned, if someone gets off one bus after a journey and onto another it can't tell the ticket has already been used
Goldfish62
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Ah thanks, I get it now. I wonder how often that actually occurs and whether Go South Coast finds the trade-off between reducing potential fraud against the loss of helpful data through not recording the return use of the ticket worthwhile.
Hopefully in time a software update will overcome this. I understand that on the railways tickets with a QR code are highlighted if reused, unlike magnetic strip tickets.
markymark2000
On Moderation
The thing I dislike on the Ticketed machines is you end up with half a ticket roll if you pay contactless. Stagecoaches ticket sizes are just right in my opinion.
I also notice Arriva doesn't utilise the 2x for Single tickets to save on paper.
I also notice Arriva doesn't utilise the 2x for Single tickets to save on paper.
With First and Go Ahead if youpay by contactless on ticketer you get an extra 2cm of paper as the receipt, that's it.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
It's annoying and slows people down as they take longer to pick up the ticket. Sometimes I wonder if people even think when designing stuff like this. (Hand held ticket machines for railway staff are a similar example - they should be designed for speed of issue but they really aren't).
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
The what, sorry?
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Are the machines not "always on" with a SIM card in each one? If not, it surely can't be long before they move to that and can, like railway e-tickets, mark them used in a central database, even if on a rural route it has to do that when it gets to a signal.
It takes 2 extra seconds. Once someone has paid by contactless a couple of times they learn to wait those 2 extra seconds for the receipt before taking the ticket and receipt as one. I don't think I even could take the ticket before the receipt has shot out.
I've switched to m-ticket recently to save money and find the biggest delay (after people paying cash) is waiting for ticketer to register peoples m-tickets. Takes a lot longer than it does to scan a printed 3d barcode for some reason.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
2 seconds x 10 passengers (say) x 20 stops = 400 seconds, or six and a half minutes[1]. It all adds up - and might mean an extra vehicle on the PVR. It always amazes me how bus operators in the UK don't seem to be bothered by this (and similar time losses by having single-door vehicles, and having to chat to the driver about your destination rather than just touch in and out). The ultimate aim has to be that boarding passengers don't even break stride on boarding - that's how it works on TfL, and (traffic aside) the progress of London buses can be much quicker as a result - it gets very near to matching the speed of conductor operation.
[1] I've often pointed out the comparable situation that adding a hustle alarm to the doors on Merseyrail EMUs necessitated adding two minutes to the Ormskirk-Liverpool running time. With lots of stops, a couple of seconds here and there really add up.
It surprises me that Ticketer have used traditional laser barcode scanners rather than a camera. The former often have trouble scanning phone screens, require the brightness to be whacked up etc - and some simply won't work at all, for instance I can't scan a Nectar card or Clubcard from my phone (a recent Motorola with a decent LCD screen) on a Tesco/Sainsburys self service till. Whereas a camera with LED light can almost always read from literally anything. (FWIW, the problems using laser barcode scanners to read from phone screens is one reason why Parkrun require you to print your barcode - the other one, as an aside, being so that you have printed "in case of emergency" info on your person).
Another slightly odd "feature" is the way they have the contactless/pass reader under the barcode reader, which can apparently cause issues reading from phones with NFC switched on - the Arriva app tells you to switch it off, which is a bit of a cheap and nasty workaround to designing things properly. The TfL "Oyster pad" target seems to be a better design to me.
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johnnychips
Established Member
Powell’s in South Yorkshire have just introduced Ticketers and they are much quicker than whatever they had before, which seemed to need five seconds to read my Travelmaster card.
markymark2000
On Moderation
If 2 people board together wanting a single to the same place, you can set up on the Ticketer machine for it to show '2 X Adult Single' rather than printing out 2 separate tickets.
Returns this works as well if both people travel together both ways.
I don't think the big companies use it yet but Fairbrothers of Warrington used to use it. It was very handy for saving paper and people still got tickets.
As for the contactless receipt, the Vix machines have an extra cm on the bottom of that one ticket. On the Ticketer machines, it prints your main ticket, cuts it then prints out a 6cm contactless receipt thing.
Genuine question, have you ever compared a Stagecoach Contactless ticket to an Arriva one? Based on them both being singles, Stagecoach tickets are 1/2 the size of Arrivas.
markymark2000
On Moderation
What did they have before? Wayfarer?
Ticketer is quicker than the Wayfarers but Vix is quicker than Ticketer.
Bletchleyite
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The former makes more sense to me. If you want it separate you can always tear it off yourself.
Goldfish62
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From what I've witnessed on First Kernow buses Ticketer is quicker at reading ENCTS cards than the previous Almex machines.
SouthEastBuses
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I actually think Ticketer is one of the best ever ticket machines in the whole of the UK. Touch screen, contactless option, and very easy to use! And I also love the fact you can scan your ticket!
Ticketer machines should be used on buses outside the UK too! I mean, there are some UK made ticket machines that are also on buses outside the UK, such as the VIX TP5700/TP5800 used on Oslo's buses in Norway.
Ticketer machines should be used on buses outside the UK too! I mean, there are some UK made ticket machines that are also on buses outside the UK, such as the VIX TP5700/TP5800 used on Oslo's buses in Norway.
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