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Class 769 for London Gateway freight trial

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ExRes

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Cynically I agree that it is likely to be UPS offering up a bit of greenwash for adverts and corporate publications though looking at the spread of times would it be for the ultra-quick deliveries where you get the stuff within hours?
I understood that rail wasn’t as competitive as superficially thought as most deliveries are overnight/early morning when traffic isn’t an issue.

Don't underestimate the amount of traffic on the roads through the night though, I last car commuted to London, solely because of the unsocial hours, as far back as 2000 and the only period that I found to be traffic jam free then was around 0200 to 0400, on the mornings that I drove home from Old Oak if I didn't get away by 0445 it could take me 90 minutes or more to do 35 miles, no doubt that traffic may not be an issue in some areas but it most certainly is in major areas like London
 
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Bald Rick

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Cynically I agree that it is likely to be UPS offering up a bit of greenwash for adverts and corporate publications though looking at the spread of times would it be for the ultra-quick deliveries where you get the stuff within hours?
I understood that rail wasn’t as competitive as superficially thought as most deliveries are overnight/early morning when traffic isn’t an issue.

Even with traffic it will always be quicker to drive a van from SLH to delivery addresses than to use the train and transship twice. The train is more likely to be used for the less time critical stuff. For example that midnightish departure from gateway will be for 9am next day parcels that are in the SLH depot before about 10pm.
 

hwl

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Even with traffic it will always be quicker to drive a van from SLH to delivery addresses than to use the train and transship twice. The train is more likely to be used for the less time critical stuff. For example that midnightish departure from gateway will be for 9am next day parcels that are in the SLH depot before about 10pm.
Agreed.
This is all about road driver/vehicle hours rather than speed /time critical. The value delivery firms (including building materials) add increasingly comes from the last few miles to the delivery address hence this is more about increasing the time drivers spend doing deliveries in a local area rather than XX of them stuck in traffic for one hour at the beginning and end of each day (which may also be critical for making battery van/trucks work in this case) travelling to the local delivery area.
(My first job involved sorting out the delivery to small store logistics from a client's new purchase where they were very inefficient and saved them load of money - all very basic maths).
It all about drops per day
 

Shimbleshanks

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Even with traffic it will always be quicker to drive a van from SLH to delivery addresses than to use the train and transship twice. The train is more likely to be used for the less time critical stuff. For example that midnightish departure from gateway will be for 9am next day parcels that are in the SLH depot before about 10pm.
Bear in mind also it's only a one-off publicity stunt.
 

ExRes

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Bear in mind also it's only a one-off publicity stunt.

Why would you call a trial a one off publicity stunt? surely we should all be hoping that it's a successful trial which leads to a regular service, any removal of road borne freight into major centres has to be high up the agenda
 

Shimbleshanks

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Why would you call a trial a one off publicity stunt? surely we should all be hoping that it's a successful trial which leads to a regular service, any removal of road borne freight into major centres has to be high up the agenda
The railways have got form on this. There was a similar TNT one-off 'trial' into Euston a few years ago; and the postal TGV that came to St Pancras for a day. Really not sure why they spent so much time and effort on this sort of thing.
 

ExRes

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The railways have got form on this. There was a similar TNT one-off 'trial' into Euston a few years ago; and the postal TGV that came to St Pancras for a day. Really not sure why they spent so much time and effort on this sort of thing.

The previous trials took place when emissions and climate change weren't considered anywhere near as important as they've now become, if this new attempt is successful then it won't be time and effort wasted, perhaps those involved will be more committed now
 

Failed Unit

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It's a very good idea and I really hope it works

Only worry is that it's unchartered territory and hope the 769's don't break down and screw up the GEML

if they did could a 321 no move them? (Or are they all going?). I guess we maybe should be more concerned about the modern traction when you look at most new stock MTBF.
 

hwl

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It's a very good idea and I really hope it works

Only worry is that it's unchartered territory and hope the 769's don't break down and screw up the GEML
A pair of them should eliminate some issues and then they have diesel for back up.
Many common failure items won't be an issue with the 769s e.g. far fewer door open / close cycles
 

Roger B

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Very common mistake, possibly the highest value /BCR freight electrification in the country.

Apologies for the delayed response - only just come this thread.

So in this age of increasing focus on emissions and climate change, when is it going to be electrified? And if there's no firm plan, why not - what / who's blocking it, and what can be done to unblock it?
 

Bald Rick

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Apologies for the delayed response - only just come this thread.

So in this age of increasing focus on emissions and climate change, when is it going to be electrified? And if there's no firm plan, why not - what / who's blocking it, and what can be done to unblock it?

The owner of the line needs to pay!
 

jopsuk

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I know the thread is mainly about the stock- but has a platform been built at Gateway for this? The main sidings are set up for container handling- and so can't have OHLE! This is why, unfortunately, the container trains run with diesel locos- though the ideal would be to wire up to the entrance to the terminal to allow bi-modes or shunters to run the trains within the yard
 

rebmcr

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I know the thread is mainly about the stock- but has a platform been built at Gateway for this? The main sidings are set up for container handling- and so can't have OHLE! This is why, unfortunately, the container trains run with diesel locos- though the ideal would be to wire up to the entrance to the terminal to allow bi-modes or shunters to run the trains within the yard

769s can use OHLE at Liverpool Street and diesel at Gateway, that's the entire point.
 

js1000

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The 769s seem to have been proposed for all sorts of things but none have yet appeared where they were promised years ago.
The 769s should enter service with Northern by end of April. Guard and Driver training commencing this month.
 

Bob Price

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The 769s should enter service with Northern by end of April. Guard and Driver training commencing this month.
Then they need to to build / deliver the TfW ones followed by the GWR ones. Little way off yet.
 

XCTurbostar

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What is reported as 769373 has now received its Orion Freight livery..
FDC6AD26-3510-4C07-A577-360954C9DC7C.jpegD9A9BE3E-A58B-483F-8F49-FB348B19AC28.png
 

Ladder23

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Hoping to find more photos of the train! looks awesome.

Any idea when we can expect to see this on test? November was the plan I believe? I assume covid has had its effect
 

hst43102

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If this is successful, could we be seeing other units converted into 769-type parcels EMUs? There will be lots of 455/456 spare soon which could be used on services to London from Southampton...

(Sorry if this is OT - I can create a new thread in the speculative section if necessary)
 

Ladder23

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If this is successful, could we be seeing other units converted into 769-type parcels EMUs? There will be lots of 455/456 spare soon which could be used on services to London from Southampton...

(Sorry if this is OT - I can create a new thread in the speculative section if necessary)
Could be a interesting thread if you do make one! I’d follow it up
 

InOban

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This is something I only realised recently. At Southampton and Felixstowe containers are unloaded and sent on, hopefully by train, to an inland distribution centre where the contents are either stored or sent on to their next destination. Neither, AIUI, has the facilities, or the space, to be a distribution centre.
London Gateway is designed to be a distribution centre as well as a seaport. So what is being planned with the 769s could not be replicated at the other sites. AIR?
 

Bald Rick

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This is something I only realised recently. At Southampton and Felixstowe containers are unloaded and sent on, hopefully by train, to an inland distribution centre where the contents are either stored or sent on to their next destination. Neither, AIUI, has the facilities, or the space, to be a distribution centre.
London Gateway is designed to be a distribution centre as well as a seaport. So what is being planned with the 769s could not be replicated at the other sites. AIR?

Broadly correct statement, but not necessarily the right answer.

There are many boxes that come out of Gateway that don’t go via the distribution centres, including almost all of the rail boxes*. And there are other rail connected distribution centres elsewhere that could facilitate this type of service - Daventry and Hams Hall to name but two.

*one of the reasons that Gateway has not lived up to its traffic predictions is that anything landed there for the London / SE market is either taken by road, or goes straight into the distribution centres where it is broken and then dispatched by road.
 

hwl

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This is something I only realised recently. At Southampton and Felixstowe containers are unloaded and sent on, hopefully by train, to an inland distribution centre where the contents are either stored or sent on to their next destination. Neither, AIUI, has the facilities, or the space, to be a distribution centre.
London Gateway is designed to be a distribution centre as well as a seaport. So what is being planned with the 769s could not be replicated at the other sites. AIR?
At a guess this is nothing to do with container contents, I'd go for this being used to convey parcels from the main UPS parcels hub (which happens to be at Gateway) to their local EC post code distribution centre covering a small area of central London (square mile + a bit). UPS would love to do lots of electric delivery vehicles but getting a suitable the power supply in central London is problematic (they were quote an 8 figure sum) hence an incentive to minimise electric mileage if possible hence train to move pre-sorted trolleys from the big distribution centre to the local one.
 

trainmania100

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Hopefully they run at reasonable timings ie not 2 in the morning , wouldn't mind seeing these in action
 
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