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Ticket dropped in price over £20.00 two days after purchase can I get refund of the difference?

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joeneat

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Bought a fixed advance single off LNER from the ticket office on Monday (on the day they came out) using a credit card and now see today tuesday they have reduced the price down from £71.00 to £48.50 by today (Newcastle-London). I'm using grand central for all most of my other festive rail travel as this type of behavior by LNER is very shady even though Sunderland is not convenient.
 
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TRAX

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Short answer, no.

Why would you expect them to refund you ?
 

joeneat

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Short answer, no.

Why would you expect them to refund you ?

Because I (wrongly) thought they go down in price not up, and I thought that they advice advance booking for cheapest fares. I can get them to refund the difference less an admin fee however I think. Also my creditcard has some protection for this type of thing but I will have to read the T&C's. Lesson learned is, don't by tickets from LNER shortly after when they come out.
 
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AM9

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Because I (wrongly) thought they go down in price not up, and I thought that they advice advance booking for cheapest fares. I can get them to refund the difference less an admin fee however I think. Also my creditcard has some protection for this type of thing but I will have to read the T&C's. Lesson learned is, don't by tickets from LNER shortly after when they come out.
Advance tickets are a marketing device to sell seats that would otherwise stay empty. Sometimes the sales are a little slow so the number at low prices might be increased. At other times, they may reduce the number of lower price tickets if demand is high. It's no different to flight ticket selling. If you were happy with the price when you bought them, why worry about how much others have bought them for?
Next time, you could delay hoping for a lower price and they all sell out, leaving you to pay for a walk-up ticket. That's competition and choice for you.
 

deltic

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Given the misleading statement on the LNER website that Joe Paxton has highlighted I would have thought you would stand a very good chance of pursing a claim against them - Trading Standards would not be impressed. There is no obvious disclaimer that advance ticket prices may fluctuate just a very bold statement that the earlier you book the cheaper the fare.
 

yorkie

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Under consumer law, as LNER have specifically stated "the earlier you book, the cheaper the tickets will be", you are owed the difference back as otherwise this would be a clear breach of consumer law.

The ORR would be responsible for enforcing this, but of course the matter could also be pointed out to the Rail Ombudsman, Transport Focus, and your MP.
 

joeneat

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Thanks for the replies, I will see what the ticket office says tomorrow and update on the refund. I have relevant screen shots saved now so hopeful on the refund.
 

DaleCooper

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LNER T&Cs

There may be rare occasions where the cost of a journey may go down after reservations have opened. We regret that Advance tickets that have already been bought will not be refunded in part or in whole in such circumstances.
 

Failed Unit

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I have noticed at times the price can drop. I assume it is others have blocked it by having it their basket but not buying. They don’t buy and the tickets return to general sale.
 

ainsworth74

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I will see what the ticket office says tomorrow and update on the refund.

It is extremely unlikely that they will be able to do anything to assist. Most likely they will say that there's nothing that can be done or alternatively they'll suggest contacting customer services.

If you wish to try and get the difference between the fares your best course of action is to start by raising a complaint and including evidence of the price change and the statement from the LNER website.
 

yorkie

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It is extremely unlikely that they will be able to do anything to assist. Most likely they will say that there's nothing that can be done or alternatively they'll suggest contacting customer services.

If you wish to try and get the difference between the fares your best course of action is to start by raising a complaint and including evidence of the price change and the statement from the LNER website.
True though as this was the original point of purchase and the ticket office is operated by the same company, it's a useful starting point. It will be interesting to see what the ticket office say you should do next (and if they give advice that is contrary to consumer law, this should be noted as evidence), but almost certainly a complaint will need to be raised.

I see very little chance of a resolution unless it gets escalated to Mike Ross ([email protected]) or is brought to the attention of David Horne.
 

30907

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Could you confirm that the ticket you purchased is an Advance (booked train only, not refundable) and not a flexible Super Offpeak Single priced £70.85?

I ask because the two fares are almost identical, but an Advance would be priced at £70.00.
 

AM9

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Under consumer law, as LNER have specifically stated "the earlier you book, the cheaper the tickets will be", you are owed the difference back as otherwise this would be a clear breach of consumer law.

The ORR would be responsible for enforcing this, but of course the matter could also be pointed out to the Rail Ombudsman, Transport Focus, and your MP.
I would imagine that if there was a successful legal challenge, the wording would be subtly changed to allow it to go up or down.
 
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yorkie

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Yes LNER would be forced to either change the wording, or introduce a "money back" promise.

The current situation, where they mislead people and state it is their policy refuse to give anything back, is a clear breach of the law.
 

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A trader must not make misleading statements or provide misleading information about their services. This is a straightforward principle of law.

If you think that the information on the LNER website is misleading to you (and that includes information which might contradict other information elsewhere, such as in the terms and conditions), here is what I would do:

- Write a complaint to LNER, explaining that you bought a ticket on their website and feel let down by them not sticking to what they said they would do, and including a copy of the information that seems wrong, plus evidence of your purchase and the new price
- Ask for an apology and a refund
- Ask for them to clarify the information they've provided

If they won't do this, I strongly suggest you open a case at the Rail Ombudsman, pointing out that LNER have a legal obligation not to say things to consumers which are untrue. If you believe that the wording on the website does not reflect the truth, and you paid for something on that basis, you may have a reasonable legal claim. However, I would write a careful letter first, and go through the procedure at the Rail Ombudsman if that does not yield anything useful.
 

Starmill

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Advance tickets are a marketing device to sell seats that would otherwise stay empty.
This may have been true once, but it isn't really true any more. They are principally a commercial tool for yeild management. You'll have lots of people on Advance tickets these days, even on trains full and standing.
 

cambsy

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Can Trading Standards etc, go after LNER like they would a private company when it is government owned essentially, and being government owned albeit arms length, why are they doing this, when they don’t need to be? Or am i missing something?
 

AM9

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This may have been true once, but it isn't really true any more. They are principally a commercial tool for yeild management. You'll have lots of people on Advance tickets these days, even on trains full and standing.
...and filling empty seats is one end of yield management, (as in maximising profit on a 'perishable' product). The other extreme is charging maximum prices for journeys to passengers that insist on travelling at a given time. They may have mistakenly slipped up on the wording, but lowering prices of airline tickets is common and so it may become on the railway. Indeed, there are bands of advance ticket prices (as shown on BR Fares website), and there's no reason why a lower price band cannot be released nearer the date of travel if sales plateau.
 

Ianno87

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How about the simple solution of just simply e-mailing LNER to explain/complain, and you might at least get some Vouchers or something as a gesture of goodwill?
 

AndyCK

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...and filling empty seats is one end of yield management, (as in maximising profit on a 'perishable' product). The other extreme is charging maximum prices for journeys to passengers that insist on travelling at a given time. They may have mistakenly slipped up on the wording, but lowering prices of airline tickets is common and so it may become on the railway. Indeed, there are bands of advance ticket prices (as shown on BR Fares website), and there's no reason why a lower price band cannot be released nearer the date of travel if sales plateau.

OT but related (apologies if this should be a new thread) - there is an interesting article on BBC News this morning about "Peak Load Pricing"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49986191

In the 1950s, the New York subway faced a problem that will be familiar to users of public transport all over the world.

At peak times, it was overcrowded; at other times, the trains were empty.

The mayor commissioned a report, which concluded the problem was subway riders paid a flat fare. No matter where you boarded, how far you travelled, or when you made your trip, it would cost you 10 cents.

Might there be some more sophisticated approach? Perhaps so. The report's foreword singled out a proposal from one of the 17 authors, economist William Vickrey.

"The abandonment of the flat-rate fare in favour of a fare structure which takes into account the length and location of the ride and the hour of the day is obviously a sensible step provided the mechanical problems involved can be solved," he said.

Vickrey's basic idea was simple: when the trains were busy, charge more. When they were quiet, charge less.
 

Tetchytyke

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They may have mistakenly slipped up on the wording, but lowering prices of airline tickets is common and so it may become on the railway.

Oh it won't be a mistake.

Just because airlines mess about with fare buckets doesn't mean we should accept the same disingenuity with the railways.
 

Failed Unit

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Oh it won't be a mistake.

Just because airlines mess about with fare buckets doesn't mean we should accept the same disingenuity with the railways.

It does amaze me the amount of people that think railways should be joining in the race to the bottom with airlines in terms of comfort, fares and customer service. We don't want Ryanrail thank you very much - but some seem to be saying the constant downgrading in quality we are seeing is OK as it matches what air-travellers put up with.
 

joeneat

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Could you confirm that the ticket you purchased is an Advance (booked train only, not refundable) and not a flexible Super Offpeak Single priced £70.85?

I ask because the two fares are almost identical, but an Advance would be priced at £70.00.


It is an advanced single valid on a specified lner train, non refundable.
 

sprunt

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there's no reason why a lower price band cannot be released nearer the date of travel if sales plateau.

The fact that the TOC's marketing states explicitly that this will not happen is an excellent reason.
 

AM9

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The fact that the TOC's marketing states explicitly that this will not happen is an excellent reason.
As I indicated above, a legal challenge might result in a change to the words, (like: "ticket prices will probably be more expensive nearer to the travel date".) There's nothing to stop that.
 

Failed Unit

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I know this isn't as a result of a seat sale, but if we had such wording, we would never see a seat sale again. I am sure we have all at some point purchased tickets in fairly dead months such as February, only to find out that had we waited we could have got the same ticket for £10 as it was included in the seat sale. (although these are normally at marginal times, I have never seen trains such as the 1100 Kings Cross - Edinburgh reduce price or be included in a seat sale). I normally book and don't look again, if the price goes down it won't change what I have paid.

I know it is slightly off topic but the only time I am nervous now is travelling at the weekend. But that is more because you don't know if the journey you propose to make will be possible by rail and you watch the competing airfare rise while you are waiting. I don't mind waiting for the APs to open, the thing I do mind is that it is very difficult to tell what specific engineering work they are waiting for. Again taking London - Edinburgh as an example, APs may become available but a detour around Carlisle, Durham Coast, Ferrybridge or Lincoln may be nice for track bashing but isn't nice for getting from A-B
 
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