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Scottish Electrification updates & discussion

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ScottDarg

ScottDarg

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Chris125 said:
After this first run went wrong, how much use have the wires down to Grangemouth actually had since being turned on?
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Pretty much none as far as I'm aware.

That service has been 66 hauled since the issues on the inaugural train and I don't recall any other instances of electrics using the branch since that run.
 
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Chris125

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ScottDarg said:
Pretty much none as far as I'm aware.

That service has been 66 hauled since the issues on the inaugural train and I don't recall any other instances of electrics using the branch since that run.
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As I feared - any idea what's so troublesome that it's not been fixed after all this time? What a waste.
 
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smtglasgow

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There’s scope to speed up the Shotts line, but the difficult bit is threading them through Newton and Haymarket. Given the huge difference in journey time between the fast and all stations trains, I wonder if 3 semi-fasts an hour – each with a different stopping pattern, but giving all but the quietest stations at least 2 trains an hour – would work. Might break a few links, but would there be an outcry if say Hartwood to Kingsknowe was no longer possible without a change (of course there would, there always is)? Alternatively, could the Dalmuir-Whifflet extend to Edinburgh as a stopper – I’m assuming the new station at Ravenscraig is still many years away. Would miss out Bellshill and might be too long to be reliable (it’s not great as it is), but would need fewer resources. It’ll be interesting to see how they do it, it’s been a Cinderella line too long.
 
d9009alycidon

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Heres a route that would open up a few new options, How about Queen Street to Waverley via Springburn, Gartcosh, Coatbridge Central, Holytown and Shotts? Not really as novel as you might think, as thre used to be a Buchanan Street to Holytown service that connected into the Shotts line services.
 
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Stopper

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d9009alycidon said:
Heres a route that would open up a few new options, How about Queen Street to Waverley via Springburn, Gartcosh, Coatbridge Central, Holytown and Shotts? Not really as novel as you might think, as thre used to be a Buchanan Street to Holytown service that connected into the Shotts line services.
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Don’t think that would work. If you’re going to run a long 1 hour plus service from Glasgow to Edinburgh it has to at least have some intermediate use/benefit as nobody will use it end to end. For example the A-B line mainly serves big intermediate markets like Livi/Bathgate-Edinburgh and Airdrie/Coatbridge-Glasgow. I’m not sure where the passengers would come from running a service round Springburn, Coatbridge, Holytown way. It would also take up platform space at Queen Street.

The Shotts line also isn’t very busy. I think running a more spaced out half-hourly frequency with 385s is good enough for the timebeing.
 
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InOban

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Furthermore the chord leading from Springburn towards Queen St is single track leading to a flat junction. A timetabler would love it. Not.
 
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alangla

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InOban said:
Furthermore the chord leading from Springburn towards Queen St is single track leading to a flat junction. A timetabler would love it. Not.
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Also a really low speed limit both on the chord and over the junction, both to & from the E&G
 
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NotATrainspott

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The only justification I can see for really shaking up the possible routes on the Glasgow suburban network is after a cross-city tunnel is built. At that point, doing a weird loop like that might make it possible to link up otherwise-unlinkeable* areas. For instance, after a tunnel you could have a service from Paisley to Airdrie going via the tunnel (assuming, as likely, that it would have northern portals onto both the Croy and Cumbernauld lines), Stepps and a new/reinstated chord at Gartsherrie.

* I do not count the City Union line/'Glasgow Crossrail' and neither would Transport Scotland.
 
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NotATrainspott

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och aye said:
Perhaps Battery/Hydrogen trains will exist by then?
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Most certainly, although battery powered trains are better thought of as electric trains which happen to be able to run without there being power available at that point. The question is then about how far the train can go without recharging. On the WHL you've got OHLE at Queen Street and from Westerton to Craigendoran; the Cowlairs to Westerton/Anniesland section is almost certainly going to be wired up fairly soon. I don't think we'll see batteries capable of getting the train up to Oban or Fort William/Mallaig without a recharge for a while, especially while keeping vehicle mass low. Charging points could be wherever there's sufficient power available locally - including local renewables. It should also be possible to install static batteries so that local renewable or trickle grid power could be used to rapidly charge up a train that had stopped.
 
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I’d be very surprised if anything on the WHL or north of Inverness sees wires. Partly because the cost /benefit would be so small, even in carbon terms. It would almost certainly cost more in carbon to put the wires up, maintain and renew them than it would to continue with diesels. Secondly, getting power to the lines would be tricky. Some of these places are a long way from a suitable, reliable power supply. Thirdly, you would get much more ‘bang per buck’ by spending the money on other carbon reduction projects in the transport sector, or other sectors for that mattter.

So the answer will be hydrogen, if possible. More likely some form of offsetting.
 
Scotrail314209

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In terms of electrification, something that would be good is electrifying the Hunterston line between Ardrossan and Hunterston, you could build a new platform at Ardrossan South Beach and West Kilbride, and with precision timing, you could run 2tph from Largs to Glasgow. Particularly since Largs is busy during the day.
 
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InOban

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Bald Rick said:
I’d be very surprised if anything on the WHL or north of Inverness sees wires. Partly because the cost /benefit would be so small, even in carbon terms. It would almost certainly cost more in carbon to put the wires up, maintain and renew them than it would to continue with diesels. Secondly, getting power to the lines would be tricky. Some of these places are a long way from a suitable, reliable power supply. Thirdly, you would get much more ‘bang per buck’ by spending the money on other carbon reduction projects in the transport sector, or other sectors for that mattter.

So the answer will be hydrogen, if possible. More likely some form of offsetting.
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Actually, because of the number of hydroelectric power plants, accessing electricity is not a problem. After all the WHL runs behind Sloy PS, and there is a275kv feed to Cruachan pumped storage. Even Rannoch is only a few miles from a PS on loch Rannoch.
 
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GRALISTAIR said:
7 cities will get done first - have to be a priority and all the smaller infills such as Kilmarnock etc.
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Has any serious research been done on how to solve the Forth Bridge problem? I see the priorities being EK/Kilmarnock/Barassie, Maryhill/Westerton/Anniesland, Edinburgh Sub.
 
GRALISTAIR

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MadMac said:
Has any serious research been done on how to solve the Forth Bridge problem? I see the priorities being EK/Kilmarnock/Barassie, Maryhill/Westerton/Anniesland, Edinburgh Sub.
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I am told there has been. Dundee Tay Bridge will also not be easy. Plenty of time though especially if the Inter7city 125s are swapped out for bimodes first.
 
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Bald Rick

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InOban said:
Actually, because of the number of hydroelectric power plants, accessing electricity is not a problem. After all the WHL runs behind Sloy PS, and there is a275kv feed to Cruachan pumped storage. Even Rannoch is only a few miles from a PS on loch Rannoch.
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Ok, I stand corrected for the west highland, perhaps, but the far north? And distribution would still be an issue.
 
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RLBH

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Ginaro said:
There is a 400kW power line going to Beauly, and a 270kW line to Thurso (via Dounreay) This is a good map showing power infrastructure: https://openinframap.org/#7.46/57.789/-4.805

Though of course going to Kyle of Lochalsh would need batteries or hydrogen.
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Technically it's from both Beauly and Dounreay - the lines were put in to connect the nuclear reactor at Dounreay, and later various wind farms, to the National Grid. Reportedly the North of Scotland Hydro-Electric Board proposed electrification of the Highland lines to British Rail quite early on in its' existence - it would be interesting to know exactly what was proposed.
 
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