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Could EMR long distance ECS moves between Liverpool and Nottingham run in service?
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Spartacus
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I'm not sure there would be a great call for a 0345 limited stop Nottingham to Liverpool, and from Sheffield to Manchester there's a 0511 ahead of it and from Man Picc to Liverpool there's an 0609 just ahead of it, so running it in service wouldn't achieve a lot. I suspect the 0523 off Nottingham is early enough.
Boysteve
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To add to Spartacus' comments such early morning services are prone to engineering work diversions. For example, sometimes the CLC route is used and sometimes Chat Moss. You could not timetable a call at Warrington Central for example, or indeed Stockport without having to regularly arrange rail replacement buses for 5am!
ashkeba
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So don't. Run a non-stop "night express" just to see what happens. Would it add much to the cost?
samuelmorris
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Does a guard normally travel on the ECS moves? That'd be the primary issue I suspect.
ashkeba
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So the guards don't start from company depots? I did not know that.
samuelmorris
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I am very much a layman here because we don't have many guard-operated services near me and I don't work in the industry but might the guard not potentially start work somewhere different to the stock for their first job?
I think in the EMR case it has been indicated before that the guards do travel from Nottingham to Liverpool for start of service.
Spartacus
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The guard does travel, but travels passenger, having them work it would probably require lots of crew diagram changes. You might have to consider staffing at Nottingham too. As I've said though, for everything bar Nottingham - Sheffield it's duplicated by a current train in service, and I can't see there being the nessesary demand at that time.
Problem with warming up ECS moves is that it establishes them in the timetable - it then becomes difficult to remove them when a different operating pattern is introduced.
For example there is a ECS Voyager from Central Rivers to Euston that runs to London via Birmingham New Street, splitting from the early train to Holyhead. The ECS to London leaves Birmingham at 0440, 50 minutes before the first passenger service. You could argue that this should run in service but you then make people think it is permanent and have a problem if it were ever decided to change the operating arrangements.
For example there is a ECS Voyager from Central Rivers to Euston that runs to London via Birmingham New Street, splitting from the early train to Holyhead. The ECS to London leaves Birmingham at 0440, 50 minutes before the first passenger service. You could argue that this should run in service but you then make people think it is permanent and have a problem if it were ever decided to change the operating arrangements.
edwin_m
Veteran Member
...and in fact the operating arrangements almost certainly will change in a couple of years time when EMR lose this service and it will probably be resourced from Liverpool or Manchester. I await a thread on whether the early morning Liverpool-Nottingham ECS should run in passenger service...
clagmonster
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Seeing as it acts as a route knowledge retainer for Dore south curve, it couldn't even serve Notts - Sheffield. I would imagine the only stations it could reliably serve regardless of diversions would be Chesterfield, Manchester Piccadilly and Occy Road.
Spartacus
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Thought this one was booked into Sheffield via Beighton?
Presumably that particular ECS would run from Crofton Depot or Sheffield rather than Liverpool but I get the point you are making. Alternatively, the first service from Nottingham could be covered by EMR running Nottingham to Sheffield as part of the long-distance service group for a separate connection to Liverpool from Sheffield.
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