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Merseyrail Parking Fines

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Ryans

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Hi, I received a parking fine from merseyrail today at aintree station for not parking within a marked bay.

Are these fines legally enforced? You read a lot on social media today about car park fines not being legally enforced and should be ignored and just wondered what the situation was here.
 
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flitwickbeds

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The situation has changed following a precedent set in law a few years ago. As long as the car park operator is a member of one of two bodies overseeing parking fines (their names escape me right now) - which they almost certainly will be on railway station land - the fine is enforceable.

Pay up, move on, and park in the space.
 
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You have to pay. THe only way out of it is if the amount written on the ticket issued is £0.00 (which I had once and didnt have to pay as the amount was £0.00)

Yes they can enforce the rule about not being completely within a marked bay.
 

CyrusWuff

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As Byelaws apply, railway car parks are not "relevant land" for the purposes of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, so any attempt at parking enforcement under same is doomed to failure.

Byelaw 14 only permits Train Companies to enforce against the owner of a vehicle, something they have no way of identifying unless you tell them given there's no register of vehicle owners in the UK. (The registered keeper may not be the owner).

In general, most companies rely on scare tactics to try and intimidate people into paying up and rarely take people to Court.

You might wish to visit PePiPoo, where they'll assist with getting the "ticket" withdrawn.
 
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gray1404

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There is also really useful page about parking fines on Martin Lewis website moneysavingexpert.com What you have received though is an invoice from a private company who is claiming you have breached your agreement with them, rather than it being a penalty notice issued by a public authority.
 

jfollows

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Go to PepiPoo as advised and read up on parking on land covered by Byelaws. Do your own research also to ensure that your case is appropriately similar.

It's almost certain that "not parking within a marked bay" is not an offence under the Byelaws, and what you are being offered is to pay a sum of money to a private company in return for a promise not to start a prosecution under the Byelaws.

If a prosecution takes place and is successful, then the money you hand over goes to the Crown and not to the private company, so their threat is only to make you pay them up front, the private company gets nothing out of it if the prosecution goes ahead and succeeds. This is because a prosecution under Byelaws is for a criminal offence, tried in a magistrate's court.

The opportunity for the prosecution under Byelaws times out after six months, so don't rush into any correspondence and you may ensure that they run out of time anyway.

You will be able to read a lot of cases documented on PepiPoo and you can inform yourself and then make up your mind on your course of action.

The situation is completely different from parking on private land where enforcement of payment can be made under contract law, which is a civil prosecution matter.
 
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WesternLancer

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Hi, I received a parking fine from merseyrail today at aintree station for not parking within a marked bay.

Are these fines legally enforced? You read a lot on social media today about car park fines not being legally enforced and should be ignored and just wondered what the situation was here.

Hi - just to understand it a bit more - did you park in a way that was a 'little bit out of an allocated space' as it were - eg a bit careless for example - in which case you maybe want to raise the issue with Merseyrail to ask if their contractor is being over zealous (or even with you local councillor down at their councillors surgery, since I understand Merseyrail is ultimately responsible for delivering services on behalf of MerseyTravel - part of the local Combined Authority - a local government body)

OR

did you find the car park full and park in a completely different, unmarked out area for example - in which case it's probably not worth appealing to Merseyrail and you probably either have to pay up, or follow advice of others who suggest you consider a route to ignoring it and taking your chances.
 

jfollows

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Merseyrail byelaws at https://www.merseyrail.org/media/205064/Final Merseyrail Byelaws.PDF include:

14 TRAFFIC SIGNS, CAUSING OBSTRUCTIONS AND PARKING

14.1 No person in charge of any motor vehicle, bicycle or other conveyance shall use it on any part of the railway in contravention of any traffic sign.

14.2 No person in charge of any motor vehicle, bicycle or other conveyance shall leave or place it on any part of the railway:
(i) in any manner or place where it may cause an (sic)
(ii) obstruction or hindrance to the Operator or any person using the railway; or
(iii) otherwise than in accordance with any instructions issued by or on behalf of the Operator or an authorised person.

14.3 No person in charge of any motor vehicle, bicycle or other conveyance shall park it on any part of the railway where charges are made for parking by the Operator or an authorised person without paying the appropriate charge at the appropriate time in accordance with instructions given by the Operator or an authorised person at that place.

14.4 In England and Wales

(i) The owner of any motor vehicle, bicycle or other conveyance used, left or placed in breach of Byelaw 14.1 to 14.3 may be liable to pay a penalty as displayed in that area.

(ii) Without prejudice to Byelaw 14.(4)(i), any motor vehicle, bicycle or other conveyance used, left or placed in breach of Byelaw 14.1 to 14.3 may be clamped, removed, and stored, by or under the direction of the Operator or authorised person.

(iii) The owner of the motor vehicle, bicycle or other conveyance shall be liable to the Operator or an authorised person for the costs incurred in clamping, removing and storing it provided that there is in that area a notice advising that any vehicle parked contrary to these Byelaws may be clamped, removed and stored by the Operator or an authorised person and that the costs incurred by the Operator or an authorised person for this may be recovered from the vehicle's owner.

(iv) The power of clamping and removal provided in Byelaw 14.4(ii) above shall not be exercisable in any area where passenger parking is permitted unless there is on display in that area a notice advising that any vehicle parked contrary to these Byelaws may be clamped and/or removed by the Operator or an authorised person.

14.5 In Scotland

Any motor vehicle, bicycle or other conveyance used, left or placed in breach of this Byelaw in Scotland may be removed by or under the direction of a constable.

I'm not sure how "In Scotland" can apply to Merseyrail but presumably these were lifted from the more general railway byelaws which apply to most railway land elsewhere in the country.

Remember: Merseyrail is giving you the opportunity to pay it £££ as a kind of bribe to ensure that Merseyrail won't pass on evidence of you committing a criminal offence against the Byelaws to the CPS in order to initiate a prosecution against you. Merseyrail doesn't actually want to do this because it will cost them money and, in return, they won't get a penny back. If it does decide it wants to see you prosecuted anyway, then how exactly did you contravene the Byelaws and what evidence to they have to support this? Not impossible to do, of course, but in a criminal case this needs to be proved beyond reasonable doubt rather than on the balance of probabilities as would apply in a civil case.
 
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Bletchleyite

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Not impossible to do, of course, but in a criminal case this needs to be proved beyond reasonable doubt rather than on the balance of probabilities as would apply in a civil case.

As a parking transgression will almost certainly have been photographed, this isn't exactly difficult.

I get the impression the OP accepts they parked improperly, in which case they should take it as a shot across the bows, cough up and park properly next time. Yes, including if just a bit over the lines - it's downright lazy[1] and causes issues for others, and I wish it was enforced more often. Wrong way in a one way system would also be nice if it was enforced.

[1] If you aren't very good at lining your car up forward, it's dead easy by reversing using wing mirrors.
 

jfollows

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My point is, as in post 9, "being parked improperly" is not in breach of the Byelaws, the specific transgressions in 14.2 are more precise and would have to be proved with something better than a piece of paper saying "not parked within a marked bay" even with a photograph (for example, obstruction or clear instructions prohibiting the behaviour would have to be demonstrated rather than just claimed). It's much easier for them to go after people who don't pay, under 14.3. However, Northern used to bring prosecutions under Byelaws, so there's always a risk that Merseyrail would do so here also.
 

Bletchleyite

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My point is, as in post 9, "being parked improperly" is not in breach of the Byelaws, the specific transgressions in 14.2 are more precise and would have to be proved with something better than a piece of paper saying "not parked within a marked bay" even with a photograph. It's much easier for them to go after people who don't pay, under 14.3. However, Northern used to bring prosecutions under Byelaws, so there's always a risk that Merseyrail would do so here also.

Merseyrail like using the Byelaws, FWIW. They even prosecute "feet on seats" which I don't believe any other TOC does.
 

jfollows

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I think between us we have answered Ryans' original question reasonably well, at least! They are legally enforceable down a specific route and Merseyrail has a history of trying to do so.
 

Fawkes Cat

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My point is, as in post 9, "being parked improperly" is not in breach of the Byelaws, the specific transgressions in 14.2 are more precise and would have to be proved with something better than a piece of paper saying "not parked within a marked bay" even with a photograph (for example, obstruction or clear instructions prohibiting the behaviour would have to be demonstrated rather than just claimed).
Wouldn't byelaw 14.2(iii) cover this? And possibly 14.2(ii) (anyone planning to use the next bay along, or if the car was sticking out into the lane between the bays, anyone driving through the car park)?
 

gray1404

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Perhaps the OP could advise of the wording of the notice they've received and if they feel the ticket can be fully justified. Where the markings clear etc, signage.....
 

jfollows

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Wouldn't byelaw 14.2(iii) cover this? And possibly 14.2(ii) (anyone planning to use the next bay along, or if the car was sticking out into the lane between the bays, anyone driving through the car park)?
I absolutely think it can, but the burden of proof is much more significant than in the usual civil case under contract law for private parking - it will be necessary to show that instructions were issued, by a suitably appropriate person, they were understandable and that the parking was clearly not in accordance with them. Some of that applies to private parking also, of course, but the "beyond reasonable doubt" criterion is important. All I think I'm saying is that a Byelaws prosecution is, and should be, relatively hard work, but of course not impossible.
 

Fawkes Cat

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I absolutely think it can, but the burden of proof is much more significant than in the usual civil case under contract law for private parking - it will be necessary to show that instructions were issued, by a suitably appropriate person, they were understandable and that the parking was clearly not in accordance with them. Some of that applies to private parking also, of course, but the "beyond reasonable doubt" criterion is important. All I think I'm saying is that a Byelaws prosecution is, and should be, relatively hard work, but of course not impossible.

I'm inclined to think that decent signage and photos would meet these tests without too much difficulty: if there's

- a photo of the car parked other than wholly in a bay
- a (contemporary) photo of a sign saying something like 'cars must be parked in marked bays, by order of Merseyrail', and
- evidence that the bays were clearly marked at the time

then it seems to me that it's clear beyond reasonable doubt that instructions have been issued by the operator, and parking wasn't in compliance with it. At that point, getting off the charge would start to rely on arguing loopholes (that the law isn't well drafted, that you're the keeper but not the owner of the car and so on).

All in all, if the car was parked partially out of a bay, it may be sensible for the OP to resolve the matter by paying the ticket instead of going to court.
 

packermac

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I'm inclined to think that decent signage and photos would meet these tests without too much difficulty: if there's

- a photo of the car parked other than wholly in a bay
- a (contemporary) photo of a sign saying something like 'cars must be parked in marked bays, by order of Merseyrail', and
- evidence that the bays were clearly marked at the time

then it seems to me that it's clear beyond reasonable doubt that instructions have been issued by the operator, and parking wasn't in compliance with it. At that point, getting off the charge would start to rely on arguing loopholes (that the law isn't well drafted, that you're the keeper but not the owner of the car and so on).

All in all, if the car was parked partially out of a bay, it may be sensible for the OP to resolve the matter by paying the ticket instead of going to court.
If a photo of the car not parked correctly cannot be produced then it basically becomes a random selection of a number plate doesn't it? What is to stop any parking company choosing 10 a day and working on the basis that 8 will just pay up?
I regularly stay at a Travelodge on a motorway and missed by me the local council since my previous visit made the back entrance no entry. The notice came through the post and a website address was given to request the photographic proof. It was provided and as I did not want to drive 250 miles to prove the signage may be incorrect I coughed up.
 

Bletchleyite

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If a photo of the car not parked correctly cannot be produced then it basically becomes a random selection of a number plate doesn't it? What is to stop any parking company choosing 10 a day and working on the basis that 8 will just pay up?

That that is called "fraud"?

No parking company these days would send out tickets without a photo - the photo guarantees they will win if they want to pursue it, without it there's little chance they will.
 

packermac

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That that is called "fraud"?

No parking company these days would send out tickets without a photo - the photo guarantees they will win if they want to pursue it, without it there's little chance they will.
I seem to remember the BBC reporting the case of a parking officer caught on CCTV taking a no parking sign around with him and placing it next to a car and then taking a photo to back up the ticket.
Plus there is also this.
https://metro.co.uk/2019/05/02/parking-warden-sacked-removing-displayed-ticket-issue-fine-9390601/
So anything is possible.
 

Bletchleyite

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I seem to remember the BBC reporting the case of a parking officer caught on CCTV taking a no parking sign around with him and placing it next to a car and then taking a photo to back up the ticket.
Plus there is also this.
https://metro.co.uk/2019/05/02/parking-warden-sacked-removing-displayed-ticket-issue-fine-9390601/
So anything is possible.

The latter might have been technically correct - you are usually instructed to display your ticket by placing it face up on the dashboard, so sticking it under the wipers is not correct per the T&C. I wonder why he did that? Left the keys in the pub and didn't want to be done for being drunk in charge perhaps?

Of course an appeal usually shows these things up to be fraud, and the perpetrators lose their jobs or worse.
 

Ryans

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image.jpg image.jpg Thank you all for your replies. To give a bit of context (for anyone who knows aintree station) it was the bay of spaces in front of the station building which has curved edges. Every time I’ve been there people have parked on the edges which is what I did yesterday - there was a car parked on the opposite side. There was plenty of space and I wasn’t breaching anyone else’s space or blocking the road round the station, essentially I was parked on a piece of tarmac which wasn’t used as a road or a pavement.

The notice was left on the car windscreen and I have included a photo.image.jpg
 

221129

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View attachment 70445 View attachment 70446 Thank you all for your replies. To give a bit of context (for anyone who knows aintree station) it was the bay of spaces in front of the station building which has curved edges. Every time I’ve been there people have parked on the edges which is what I did yesterday - there was a car parked on the opposite side. There was plenty of space and I wasn’t breaching anyone else’s space or blocking the road round the station, essentially I was parked on a piece of tarmac which wasn’t used as a road or a pavement.

The notice was left on the car windscreen and I have included a photo.View attachment 70445
Unless you fancy a trip to magistrates court with no guarantee of winning I'd pay up the £30.
 

35B

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This:

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.473...4!1sm1RELOUFYlup6TKfVxj_Sw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

seems to show that bit of non-tarmac as being marked "Merseyrail Company Car Only" which seems clear enough that it isn't for you.

The other end isn't, but it's also fairly obvious that it's not a parking space.

Cough up, I'd say, it's only £30.
But the brick at the other end does have double yellow lines all around it, clearly suggesting it's not parking. I agree, it's not worth appealing on that one.
 
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