Northhighland
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Be amazed if they have all the sets in service by 2027.
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ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion
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Highland37
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They won't because it will be cancelled well before then.
BRX
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I'm going to put my money on the refurb project being rather successful in the end... After an extended period of things continuing to be a bit of a shambles. If they are working well for GWR etc I don't see why the same shouldn't be the case in Scotland. It reminds me of the Thameslink debacle, which was a right mess to start with, and which seemed for some time there was no end in sight, but has now settled in quite nicely in my opinion.
I was of the same view, but unless there's some kind of big bang soon they* may get the rug pulled from under them before it gets a chance to bed in.
*Both Abellio and the the HSTs - though the trains will be harder to replace in short order.
Deltic1961
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It's quite funny how they keep bigging up the refurbed HSTs on Twitter every single day.
A bit like Easyjet telling everyone next summers flights from Edinburgh will be in a fleet of DC10s
They're playing on nostalgia.
A bit like Easyjet telling everyone next summers flights from Edinburgh will be in a fleet of DC10s
They're playing on nostalgia.
Speed43125
Member
Well, I'd say more like trying to replace a Q400 with a 727(200Adv!). as it's really the capacity and comfort that they're meant to be providing...
Killingworth
Established Member
The lack of deliveries is an externally visible side of this. As is the lack of units in service and the number of units in bits. Those at Wabtec and Scotrail must be very well aware of what's wrong.
Despite all our speculation and assumptions we don't have any official guidance on what is the problem with those delivered. We don't even know what work is still being done in Doncaster or anywhere else. Have production procedures been changed to get better results? We have to assume work is still going on, but for commercial reasons it may be unwise for any of the parties to make any specific comments at this stage. However, the longer this all takes the more the lawyers will make out of it.
Despite all our speculation and assumptions we don't have any official guidance on what is the problem with those delivered. We don't even know what work is still being done in Doncaster or anywhere else. Have production procedures been changed to get better results? We have to assume work is still going on, but for commercial reasons it may be unwise for any of the parties to make any specific comments at this stage. However, the longer this all takes the more the lawyers will make out of it.
Railperf
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Nothing to do with Nostalgia. The refurbished HSTs offer more space and better comfort than a 170 or 158.
Deltic1961
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If they were in service and reliable
They do offer space and comfort, unfortunately to rather more fitters and rather fewer passengers than planned.
If HA19 is expected to head up soon, it sounds like Abellio, Angel Trains and Wabtec may have come up with an acceptable route to resolution of the issues with the existing fleet. If that's the case, it must be a good thing.
Railperf
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Of course. I am as disappointed in the situation as much as anyone. But, when a service is actually formed by a refurbished HST, the travelling experience is as good as anything in the UK. The ones that i managed to use all ran to time and did not break down in service. The issue appears to be poor daily availability as we have been saying for six months or more.
Speed43125
Member
I agree, I suspect while delivery and project management may be poor, the current handling of the situation is pretty good. HSTs are never chanced upon in service, if there's an issue we get a DMU sub and they seem very good at magiccing them out of nowhere at very short notice(literally >10 minutes on occasions), and while some services end up extremely packed, very very few HSTs have failed on a service, they've always been thrown back into the depot and we've gotten the reliable, but less pleasant stock instead.
It's not as if we have HSTs with incompatible couplers stuck in the middle of nowhere on a single line section of HML weekly, they seem to be quite conservative with usage, which creates unfavouable press, but I suspect it's the lesser of two evils.
Highland37
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Which adds up to a very poor service. It isn't acceptable to promise lots and then fail to deliver it. For able bodied men, which the majority on here are, then it's not a problem. But for children, those pregnant or with babies it means that the service is poor.
My ten year old has to head south by herself as my other half is not willing to risk the clapped out units with their filthy baby changing facilities for other other child. These units are only being used as the HSTs have not delivered through a combination of all the reasons on here. But it adds up to a very poor and expensive service. Get the bus is my advice to relatives (unless you have a baby).
BRX
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It would perhaps be nice to have one thread for endlessly repeated statements about the unacceptable current standard of service, and how many weeks/months/years late things are, and another one that just contains discussion and updates on anything that is new, interesting or has actually changed.
hexagon789
Veteran Member
There was one a while back but we ended up with everything being posted in this thread still.
On a brighter note 5 refurbs were out this morning according to ScotRail's twitter - better than I've seen in a while.
Is there any back up to this as the usually reliable post on the Scottish Railways group in facebook shows only 3 refurbs and 1 classic out of the 10 diagrams?
hexagon789
Veteran Member
Purely going off the post and services listed, I have no way of knowing of those services were operated by HSTs in practice.
Doing a bit cross checking the services listed on the Scotrail twitter post are all covered by just the 3 refurb diagrams.
noticed a lot more refurbs out than classics recently. Must be for train crew to get used to the refurbs. Is this a sign that Scotrail will definitely not be allowed to run the classics after December? Do Scotrail have enough refurbs and 170s to cover the shortfall while not shortforming other services?
hexagon789
Veteran Member
Fair enough then, just seemed like more
What I will say is that in the two missed months for delivery, the Wabtec and Kilmarnock works won't have been siting on their thumbs.
I can't figure out why the delay to the next set? Apparently it was ready to go but rejected by Scotail. It can't take over two months for remedial work on that set surely?
Definitely something afoot, perhaps more extensive metal work being undertaken retrospectively on everything in the workshop based on the experience of the existing completed sets in service?
But how many months since last set? 3+ ..... very peculiar when they were all in the shed being worked on.
I can't figure out why the delay to the next set? Apparently it was ready to go but rejected by Scotail. It can't take over two months for remedial work on that set surely?
Definitely something afoot, perhaps more extensive metal work being undertaken retrospectively on everything in the workshop based on the experience of the existing completed sets in service?
But how many months since last set? 3+ ..... very peculiar when they were all in the shed being worked on.
Goldromans
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The date wasn't really missed, ScotRail wanted the reliability issues they were encountering with all the refurbs so far sorted before taking any more. With a new delivery path in for tomorrow, it looks like they've been sorted (hopefully).
Let's not forget either that we're supposed to be getting two sets a month from January, but I'll believe that when I see it...
Highland37
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I don't think it's unreasonable for people to pass comment on an ongoing issue. It is ongoing after all.
Was just about to post the same.
5 refurbs out today by the sound of it.
hexagon789
Veteran Member
Finally!
At the risk of jinxing it though - 5 actually out on diagrams or 5 of which some got subbed?
From what I've heard, 5 full diagrams with refurbs.
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