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UK Train Times app (Agant) - at the end of the line?

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BRX

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Can anyone recommend anything for android that's better than the nre app?
 
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Flying Snail

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Can anyone recommend anything for android that's better than the nre app?

Repeatedly smashing oneself in the face with the android device would probably qualify.

None of the apps I have tried have been much good for real time running, I tend to just stick to realtimetrains on a browser. I don't really do planning on the phone so can't say to that.

It should be said that while RTT is great most of the time in extreme disruption the official app can have more accurate data on delays and cancellations.
 

800002

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Can anyone recommend anything for android that's better than the nre app?
What exactly is it you are wishing to gain, by not using the NRE app?

There may be multiple webpages for what you're wishing to do :)
 

pdq

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Can anyone recommend anything for android that's better than the nre app?
For real time running - not planning - I've been using Fasteroute for a while. Quite a clean interface and simple to store searches.
 

Soyyo

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The realtimetrains app that is no longer on the iOS app store has a function I’ve been unable to find on any other app.

You could list all the stops for any service, and when selecting the stop at e.g.”Leeds 0953” could then press and list “Departures around arrival time”.

This function is very useful, does anyone know any other iPhone app that has it?
 

IJM Software

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Hello, I have just released a new live train times app called "Commuter Train Check" (on Android only at this point, but will develop an iOS app also in the near-ish future). Many people above (like me) found existing apps cluttered and fussy. My app aims to be more straightforward and fuss-free. It does only one thing - give live train times (no journey planner etc.). Whilst not radically different to the plethora of other apps out there, it does allow you to specify a time window when you would usually make a specific one-way journey, and will show that as "active" within that time window - which really just means it shows at the top of the home screen, in easy reach of the index finger. There are just two screens - home screen (where all your journeys are accessible, and can be tapped to see the live train times for that journey) and the detail screen (which shows the breakdown of all stations on the journey, along with the live status for each). Uniquely, these two screens are independent, so you can swipe back and forward between them, keeping a specific journey in the detail, and tapping other journeys on the home page. I think this design avoids the fractured, abrupt experience of other apps - it's a small design point, but I think it makes for a much nicer, smoother user experience. Other features are a "dark mode", and the ability to fine-tune font sizes independently on the home and detail screen (very important for visually impaired users, but useful in general for people who want to find a more comfortable text size).

I'd love to get feedback from folks out there, so give it a try!

Here's the link to it on Google Play:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.ijmsoftware.commutertraincheck
 

BRX

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Hello, I have just released a new live train times app called "Commuter Train Check" (on Android only at this point, but will develop an iOS app also in the near-ish future). Many people above (like me) found existing apps cluttered and fussy. My app aims to be more straightforward and fuss-free. It does only one thing - give live train times (no journey planner etc.). Whilst not radically different to the plethora of other apps out there, it does allow you to specify a time window when you would usually make a specific one-way journey, and will show that as "active" within that time window - which really just means it shows at the top of the home screen, in easy reach of the index finger. There are just two screens - home screen (where all your journeys are accessible, and can be tapped to see the live train times for that journey) and the detail screen (which shows the breakdown of all stations on the journey, along with the live status for each). Uniquely, these two screens are independent, so you can swipe back and forward between them, keeping a specific journey in the detail, and tapping other journeys on the home page. I think this design avoids the fractured, abrupt experience of other apps - it's a small design point, but I think it makes for a much nicer, smoother user experience. Other features are a "dark mode", and the ability to fine-tune font sizes independently on the home and detail screen (very important for visually impaired users, but useful in general for people who want to find a more comfortable text size).

I'd love to get feedback from folks out there, so give it a try!

Here's the link to it on Google Play:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.ijmsoftware.commutertraincheck

Hi - I've tried this just a little bit.

It took me a little while to realise that you can long-tap to hide times on the home screen (yes, I should have read the text in the yellow box to start with).

To me it feels more intuitive just to tap it normally to show or hide. That I think is how most people would expect it to behave. I know you have use the normal tap to refresh the times - but actually I'd rather that the times just auto-refreshed themselves (maybe with an extra button you can press if you want to force it). And either way, I'd prefer that while they are refreshing, the times didn't disappear. You could have some text appear at the top saying 'loading' but if you're legging it for a train, and at the same time you've lost connection on your phone, you don't want the critical info to disappear. It's better to have some slightly out of date times than none.

It also would be useful, for each train, to have the arrival time at the destination shown.

All of the above kind of relate to how I can see myself using this, which is for multi-leg journeys. In that case, your layout, with two or three journeys visible on the home screen, is quite handy. Because I might want to check when the next train from A to B is, but also when the next train from B to C is. There's no point rushing for the first train from A to B if the next one would get you there for your connection. From this use case, perhaps you can see why I've made the suggestions above. It would be handy to quickly and easily check:
1) When's the next train from A to B and when does it arrive at B
2) When are the next few trains leaving from B
3) When do each of these arrive at C (because some might be faster than others).

This is a process which is very fiddly with the NRE app, and which could be very easy with yours.

One final point (less important) - when I add a new journey and select the 'travelling from' or 'travelling to' station, I'd like the list to come up with the keyboard already open and ready for me to enter the filter text straight away. I'll hardly ever happen to want to press on one of the stations that happen to be at the top of the alphabetical list.
 

IJM Software

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Hi BRX, thank you so much for taking the time to give this constructive feedback - exactly the kind I need to meet my aim of making a completely smooth - and simple - experience.

Re: the long-tap to hide, good point (and why I put it in the instructions, which of course nobody reads haha!). I did wonder about having auto-refreshes in there, and also whether to simply have a refresh button for each journey. My rationale for how I've done it is 1) The screen is less cluttered 2) Bigger area to tap 3) I kinda thought most uses would be to show a single commute journey (perhaps refreshed a few times) and they would rarely hide it. I did think about an auto-refresh, but shyed away from it as I feared my server being unecessarily hit with loads of auto-refreshes that weren't necessarily needed! I'm not sure what best answer here is, to be honest! I shall think some more, but as I type I am thinking your suggestion about not hiding existing times on a refresh is a good one (and would also mean less screen-jumping), and in terms of "auto-refresh" then a compromise here could be to trigger an auto-refresh on all journeys currently showing as the screen is opened, so as you open the app to as you power-walk it to the station, the journey estimates are all updated within a second or two (assuming good data connection etc.).

Re: your point about showing the arrival time at the destination, that's a fair point actually. Just because my train is on time at the source station doesn't mean it will be on time at the destination. I'll consider how to add this in a nice, uncluttered way. I'd be tempted to include preferences to show or hide that, for those people who are happy to assume the destination time based on source time.

Your mention about multi-leg journeys is interesting, because I've started to think how I could handle this nicely in my app. And if I could handle it nicely, that would definitely be a unique selling point. I think I would have to rely on the user entering the different (valid) legs, and making them logical, but I think the app should really group that multi-leg journey as a separate entry on the home page, so one tap would get all the journeys back in one go, and point out the minutes "gap" (positive or negative!) between each leg, based on the latest estimates. This will require a lot of thought and design to execute well, but it is intriguing me!

Once again, thank you for this input. I think this app has real potential for doing one thing very well, and this type of feedback will hopefully get me a step nearer. Better get back to coding then :)

Edited to add: I just wanted to check (based on your request to have the destination time showing), that you are aware that you can click on the individual service on the home page to open up the detailed list of stops? I appreciate that it would still be useful to see the destination time on the home screen, but just wanted to check how obvious - or not - it was to get to the detail screen for a service...

Edited to add more! I am also thinking a simple "Refresh" icon in the action bar on the home screen to refresh all showing journeys would be useful also, to save tapping multiple journeys you are interested in.
 
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BRX

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Re: the long-tap to hide, good point (and why I put it in the instructions, which of course nobody reads haha!). I did wonder about having auto-refreshes in there, and also whether to simply have a refresh button for each journey. My rationale for how I've done it is 1) The screen is less cluttered 2) Bigger area to tap 3) I kinda thought most uses would be to show a single commute journey (perhaps refreshed a few times) and they would rarely hide it. I did think about an auto-refresh, but shyed away from it as I feared my server being unecessarily hit with loads of auto-refreshes that weren't necessarily needed! I'm not sure what best answer here is, to be honest! I shall think some more, but as I type I am thinking your suggestion about not hiding existing times on a refresh is a good one (and would also mean less screen-jumping), and in terms of "auto-refresh" then a compromise here could be to trigger an auto-refresh on all journeys currently showing as the screen is opened, so as you open the app to as you power-walk it to the station, the journey estimates are all updated within a second or two (assuming good data connection etc.).

Yes I can see there would be downsides to auto refreshes, and the solutions you suggest make sense.

Re: your point about showing the arrival time at the destination, that's a fair point actually. Just because my train is on time at the source station doesn't mean it will be on time at the destination.

Even if it's on time at the destination, it's still often useful to know what the arrival time is. Especially in the scenario where there's another leg of journey following on.

Your mention about multi-leg journeys is interesting, because I've started to think how I could handle this nicely in my app. And if I could handle it nicely, that would definitely be a unique selling point. I think I would have to rely on the user entering the different (valid) legs, and making them logical, but I think the app should really group that multi-leg journey as a separate entry on the home page, so one tap would get all the journeys back in one go, and point out the minutes "gap" (positive or negative!) between each leg, based on the latest estimates. This will require a lot of thought and design to execute well, but it is intriguing me!

That's something that I think I'd find really handy, and could indeed be a USP.

I can give you an example of a slightly more complex use case. I used to have to make the journey between south London and Guildford quite often. Because I had a choice of start and end points, there were two basic routes open to me. One route was DMK-CLJ-GLD. The other one, LGJ-WIM-LRD. (Each in fact sometimes with the option of an additional change along the way, but I'll ignore that for now). And depending on things like connection times, and taking into account the time it would take me to walk to and from the start/end points, sometimes one route would be faster than the other. So there'd often be a calculation about which way to go, which would involve checking if there were delays on one route or the other. For that journey it would have been very useful to have something like your home screen, with each multileg journey sitting there, telling me what options were actually available at that moment. I dunno how many other people that kind of scenario occurs for; maybe it's something you could do some research on.



Edited to add: I just wanted to check (based on your request to have the destination time showing), that you are aware that you can click on the individual service on the home page to open up the detailed list of stops? I appreciate that it would still be useful to see the destination time on the home screen, but just wanted to check how obvious - or not - it was to get to the detail screen for a service...
Yes, aware of that. However if it's a service with many stops, it means the answer is not just an additional tap away, but also a scroll down to the bottom of the page.

Edited to add more! I am also thinking a simple "Refresh" icon in the action bar on the home screen to refresh all showing journeys would be useful also, to save tapping multiple journeys you are interested in.
Yes I agree.
 

BRX

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By the way I think I might have found a bug: when I try to set up a journey ("add new journey") between GLD and CLJ it tells me "error, there is no direct train from Guildford to Clapham Junction", which is not true!
 

IJM Software

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Thanks BRX, I think we are on the same page with this, and point taken about the destination arrival time being of importance when a multi-leg journey is significant. I shall see what I can do. I'll do an update this week with the various points addressed except for the multi-leg thing, which I will need to tackle separately. Your more complex scenario would be catered for by setting up those two separate multi-leg journeys, and then simply seeing how each of them were faring in order to make a judgement. As for GLD to CLJ, very odd, I shall need to investigate...
 

BRX

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point taken about the destination arrival time being of importance when a multi-leg journey is significant.
Also of course when there are fast and slow trains, and waiting for a slightly later departure might get you there sooner!
 

IJM Software

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Hi BRX, on the topic of Clapham Junction, this is now fixed. Clapham is one of those stations where, internally there are multiple different "stations" under one banner... and no obvious systematic way in the data to connect them (at least in the data I can find from the various sources). Anyhow.. now fixed, I had missed one of the Clapham Junction "stations". You'll need to close the app if you have it open, as the stations file is checked for any updates when you open up the app, and downloaded silently.
 
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Mathew S

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@IJM Software the app is a great start, but something for you to think about is people, like me, who commute to/from a choice of multiple stations. In my case, there are two stations in Wigan (Wigan Wallgate and Wigan North Western) and three stations in Manchester (Manchester Piccadilly, Manchester Oxford Road, and Manchester Victoria).
The idea behind your app is brilliant, but it needs to be able to handle cases where services start/end from multiple stations.
Hopefully you'll be able to make that happen and improve what is already a really good start.
 

IJM Software

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@Mathew S Thanks for the positive feedback! Can I clarify your use-case? Are you saying that you would want to be able to specify multiple "From" and multiple "To" stations, and then the app would simply list all the services that match any combination? So in your case it would list any of the Wigan stations to any of the Manchester stations? If so, in terms of the app design I am visualising an "Add alternative From Station" and "Add alternative To Station" in the drop-down button for a Journey on the Home Page. So you would just add any number of alternatives. I suppose many people will have options for source stations on different lines, and want an easy way to get the status of trains on either line to help decide which one to go for.
 

BRX

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@IJM Software the app is a great start, but something for you to think about is people, like me, who commute to/from a choice of multiple stations. In my case, there are two stations in Wigan (Wigan Wallgate and Wigan North Western) and three stations in Manchester (Manchester Piccadilly, Manchester Oxford Road, and Manchester Victoria).
The idea behind your app is brilliant, but it needs to be able to handle cases where services start/end from multiple stations
Sounds much the same as the scenario i described in my post no. 40 above.
 

BRX

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Hi BRX, on the topic of Clapham Junction, this is now fixed. Clapham is one of those stations where, internally there are multiple different "stations" under one banner... and no obvious systematic way in the data to connect them (at least in the data I can find from the various sources). Anyhow.. now fixed, I had missed one of the Clapham Junction "stations". You'll need to close the app if you have it open, as the stations file is checked for any updates when you open up the app, and downloaded silently.
Yup well done, seems to work now.
 

IJM Software

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Sounds much the same as the scenario i described in my post no. 40 above.

I think the two scenarios are different? In post no. 40, were you not referring to split journeys (and setting up different variations of split journeys so you can compare the results)? Matthew S is not referring to split journeys, but rather alternative start and end stations (no splits, simple single train journey). Though combining the two scenarios (split journeys with alternative start and end stations) may cause my brain to implode a this current moment :)
 

Mathew S

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@Mathew S Thanks for the positive feedback! Can I clarify your use-case? Are you saying that you would want to be able to specify multiple "From" and multiple "To" stations, and then the app would simply list all the services that match any combination? So in your case it would list any of the Wigan stations to any of the Manchester stations? If so, in terms of the app design I am visualising an "Add alternative From Station" and "Add alternative To Station" in the drop-down button for a Journey on the Home Page. So you would just add any number of alternatives. I suppose many people will have options for source stations on different lines, and want an easy way to get the status of trains on either line to help decide which one to go for.
Yep, that's exactly the use case I have in mind.
Thanks :)
 

Mathew S

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I think the two scenarios are different? In post no. 40, were you not referring to split journeys (and setting up different variations of split journeys so you can compare the results)? Matthew S is not referring to split journeys, but rather alternative start and end stations (no splits, simple single train journey). Though combining the two scenarios (split journeys with alternative start and end stations) may cause my brain to implode a this current moment :)
Yeah, they are two different scenarios. Split journeys is valuable as well, though less so to me since I don't have to change trains. I also imagine that the sheer number of potential possibilities makes split journeys hard work.
 

IJM Software

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@BRX I've just deployed version 1.2 (will take a while to reach devices), which has various refinements mentioned above - content no longer disappears on refresh, auto-refresh when the app is brought back to the foreground (this is a very nice feature actually!), estimated arrival time at destination station now shown in service result, refresh icon in action bar of Home screen (refreshes all journeys with services showing), and keyboard automatically shown on open of the station picker.

Looking ahead, the next enhancement will be the one needed by @Mathew S, i.e. multiple source and destination stations (up to 3 each, to keep things sane). That is easier than split journeys, which I plan to tackle afterwards. With split journeys, I am thinking about a completely separate screen (side-swipe to the left of the home screen) where you put together your split journeys, assembled from the single journeys added on the home page. The plan is to have both new features added in the next 3-4 weeks, all going well.
 

Mathew S

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@BRX I've just deployed version 1.2 (will take a while to reach devices), which has various refinements mentioned above - content no longer disappears on refresh, auto-refresh when the app is brought back to the foreground (this is a very nice feature actually!), estimated arrival time at destination station now shown in service result, refresh icon in action bar of Home screen (refreshes all journeys with services showing), and keyboard automatically shown on open of the station picker.

Looking ahead, the next enhancement will be the one needed by @Mathew S, i.e. multiple source and destination stations (up to 3 each, to keep things sane). That is easier than split journeys, which I plan to tackle afterwards. With split journeys, I am thinking about a completely separate screen (side-swipe to the left of the home screen) where you put together your split journeys, assembled from the single journeys added on the home page. The plan is to have both new features added in the next 3-4 weeks, all going well.
Amazing, thank you. I'll look forward to it :)
 

IJM Software

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No problem, @Mathew S ! Actually, the alternative source/destination stations is probably not that much of an edge-case. On my commute, I can actually walk to two different stations next to each other on the same line, and the trains don't always stop at both (especially in rush hour). There must be many people in that type of situation (more so with a choice of stations to drive to), and I don't expect many apps will cater for it.
 

BRX

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I think the two scenarios are different? In post no. 40, were you not referring to split journeys (and setting up different variations of split journeys so you can compare the results)? Matthew S is not referring to split journeys, but rather alternative start and end stations (no splits, simple single train journey). Though combining the two scenarios (split journeys with alternative start and end stations) may cause my brain to implode a this current moment :)
I was referring to alternative start and end stations as well (starting at either DMK or LGJ, and ending at either GLD or LRD) - but in my case, it also involves a change of train by either route, or what you call a split journey.
 

BRX

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@BRX I've just deployed version 1.2 (will take a while to reach devices), which has various refinements mentioned above - content no longer disappears on refresh, auto-refresh when the app is brought back to the foreground (this is a very nice feature actually!), estimated arrival time at destination station now shown in service result, refresh icon in action bar of Home screen (refreshes all journeys with services showing), and keyboard automatically shown on open of the station picker.

Looking ahead, the next enhancement will be the one needed by @Mathew S, i.e. multiple source and destination stations (up to 3 each, to keep things sane). That is easier than split journeys, which I plan to tackle afterwards. With split journeys, I am thinking about a completely separate screen (side-swipe to the left of the home screen) where you put together your split journeys, assembled from the single journeys added on the home page. The plan is to have both new features added in the next 3-4 weeks, all going well.

Impressively fast work - I'll look forward to trying it out.
 

IJM Software

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Just a quick post to say that V1.3 is out there now, which now includes the ability to show "earlier trains" for any given journey (well, trains in motion or those that have reached their destination within the last half hour). In addition, any train in the Detail screen will stay there until around half an hour after it reaches its destination (important when you are sitting on a train, tracking its future estimates with an eye to making a connection). The next version (hopefully out end of next week or thereabouts) will include optional source and destination stations.

ETA the link to the app on Google Play (their search is very odd, even if you enter the exact unique title, it is listed way down the results, and searching for "live uk train times" doesn't return it all!).
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.ijmsoftware.commutertraincheck
 

BRX

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Just a quick post to say that V1.3 is out there now, which now includes the ability to show "earlier trains" for any given journey
That's a useful addition.

By the way - going back to one of my original comments, which was that the long-tap wasn't a very intuitive way to close up a journey's live times - I still think that's the case, and isn't it now superseded by the fact that to refresh the times you now can tap the refresh icon on top right, which means there's no reason to reserve the short-tap for that purpose? I'd like if a single tap both expanded and collapsed each journey on the home screen.

Also... intuitively I find myself wanting to press the android 'back' button to get me back to the app's home screen as it is when I open the app - but it quits me out of the app instead. I think most people would press the middle circle to do that.
 

IJM Software

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Hi BRX, re: the back button, are you saying that it quits the app when in the "Detail" screen? I have programmed it specifically to slide back to the Home screen if you are on the detail screen, so I'm confused as to the behaviour you're experiencing. Do you know which version of Android you are you using, so I can check in the simulator.

Re: the toggling of journey details on the home screen, I've made a note, and will definitely come back to it, quite possibly in the next version. I agree to an extent that the refresh icon in the action bar does the job, but it is kinda out the way. I am wondering if the best answer here is to do as you say (i.e. toggle on/off), but add a refresh icon within each journey to refresh that. I am sympathetic to the view that tapping to refresh is not intuitive!

Thanks for your continued interest :) Getting this feedback is the only way I can tighten the app up. I am happy with the way it is going though, and I am a daily user myself - I find it nicer to use than the competition, especially since implementing your suggestions of keeping the screens stable, and auto-update on awaken!
 

BRX

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Hi BRX, re: the back button, are you saying that it quits the app when in the "Detail" screen?
No - I mean when I'm on the home screen, but I have several journeys 'expanded', and I feel like pressing the back button should get me back to where I started which is still on the home screen but all the journeys collapsed again. In other words, if I have 3 journeys 'expanded' then instead of having to do a long-tap 3 times I'd like to press 'back' and have them all revert. Maybe not entirely logical but that's what feels like it should happen.
 
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