Bus Manufacturer News & Discussion

Flinn Reed · 27 Sep 2019

Bornin1980s said:
I've noticed that the Arriva fleet in my area seems to be largely made up of 10 year old Wright single dekkers on VDL running gear. Now that Wrighbus is gone, what are Arriva buying right now?

The vast majority of recent Arriva orders outside London have been ADL, with a small number of Wright products.

As you mention VDL vehicles. The current Wright range featured integral vehicles to replace VDL-chassis vehicles. Are VDL chassis available with any other manufacturer's vehicles, possibly in Europe?

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Gingerbus1991 · 27 Sep 2019

Flinn Reed said:
The E400MMC is also available on the Volvo B5LH chassis. Is a diesel equivalent available - i.e. a B5TL/Enviro 400 MMC?

Its probably 101% possible to fit any ADL Body onto any volvo chassis, they done it with the 400xlb/b8l and 400mmc/b5lh, I highly doubt mounting onto a B5TL diesel chassis is any different, different body panels yes etc, but the actual areas where the body mounts will be the same sort/type.

The retired Enviro 300 bodywork was available on top of scania, MAN and volvo B7RLE chassis as was the original 400 on top of the B9TL chassis.

Its also highly likely that the 400 CITY body could be applied to volvo chassis as well, its already been fitted to scania's n280ud gas chassis for Nottingham City transport and Reading buses.

ClydeCoaster · 27 Sep 2019

Flinn Reed said:
The vast majority of recent Arriva orders outside London have been ADL, with a small number of Wright products.

As you mention VDL vehicles. The current Wright range featured integral vehicles to replace VDL-chassis vehicles. Are VDL chassis available with any other manufacturer's vehicles, possibly in Europe?

VDL only offer the Citea range across Europe now, of which the StreetLite WF was a member of (though I don't think a very successful one?). I think with ADL having the near monopoly on the UK bus market now there's definitely scope for the European manufacturers to make a return. In the 70s there was a similar situation with BL, though granted deliveries were a problem that forced PTEs to turn toward Scania, MCW and Volvo.

Was the Citea DLF built for Berlin a one-off? I don't think there are any other VDL Euro 6 deckers out there?

hst43102 · 27 Sep 2019

ClydeCoaster said:
Was the Citea DLF built for Berlin a one-off? I don't think there are any other VDL Euro 6 deckers out there?

Citea DLFs would be a good bus to enter the British market with. Possibly the only double decker better looking than the E400MMC?

Mikey C · 27 Sep 2019

ClydeCoaster said:
VDL only offer the Citea range across Europe now, of which the StreetLite WF was a member of (though I don't think a very successful one?). I think with ADL having the near monopoly on the UK bus market now there's definitely scope for the European manufacturers to make a return. In the 70s there was a similar situation with BL, though granted deliveries were a problem that forced PTEs to turn toward Scania, MCW and Volvo.

Was the Citea DLF built for Berlin a one-off? I don't think there are any other VDL Euro 6 deckers out there?

There's no monopoly on double deckers, as Volvo have roughly a similar share to ADL (and MCV bodywork is available)

The market for lightweight single deckers is perhaps more problematic, as it's a very specific British market product.

Of course Optare is still around AND someone will surely either buy Wrights from the administrators OR buy product lines...

F Great Eastern · 28 Sep 2019

Excellent votes of build quality, great workmanship and consideration of passenger comfort and sensible seating layouts and excellent plastic moulds in the latest UK built electric vehicles

https://busandtrainuser.com/2019/09/26/electric-shock-on-rear-seats/

Jordan Adam · 28 Sep 2019

F Great Eastern said:
Excellent votes of build quality, great workmanship and consideration of passenger comfort and sensible seating layouts and excellent plastic moulds in the latest UK built electric vehicles

https://busandtrainuser.com/2019/09/26/electric-shock-on-rear-seats/

The rear seats aren't that bad. If the writer thinks they're the worst they've ever seem on the lower deck of a double decker then they've clearly not been on a Omnidekka! Its sad to see such shoddy workmanship however.

F Great Eastern · 28 Sep 2019

Jordan Adam said:
The rear seats aren't that bad. If the writer thinks they're the worst they've ever seem on the lower deck of a double decker then they've clearly not been on a Omnidekka! Its sad to see such shoddy workmanship however.

The back row on the Omnidekka isn't great, I admit and not much in the way of leg-room, but as least it's cushion the whole way along, rather than some loosely moulded fabric cut outs for five seats which feels like sitting on plastic that is common on ADL products.

I would also say the banks of four seats on an Omnidekka are far better. Normal seats as opposed to slaps of cushion on top of plastic moulding. There's also far better leg-room than in that ADL vehicle in that article.

Mikey C · 28 Sep 2019

That back row didn't look particularly bad to me. I think most passengers would prefer a seat (albeit uncomfortable) to standing

The rear lower deck seating of the B5LH for example is pretty flawed as well, with very variable floor height and poor headroom in some seats

There is an element of experimentation going on with the interior layouts of these electric buses, I'm sure they'll improve over time

Hophead · 28 Sep 2019

Jordan Adam said:
The rear seats aren't that bad. If the writer thinks they're the worst they've ever seem on the lower deck of a double decker then they've clearly not been on a Omnidekka! Its sad to see such shoddy workmanship however.

Considering Roger French (who is buasandtrainuser) introduced well over a hundred to the Brighton & Hove fleet, I think he probably has been on an Omnidekker. His reference to "the worst lower deck seats" he's encountered, though, refers to the wheel arch intruding on leg room, and it really does look cramped.

GusB · 8 Oct 2019

Another big Hong Kong order for ADL:

https://cbwmagazine.com/adl-awarded-180-enviro500-order-from-kmb/

Alexander Dennis Limited (ADL), a subsidiary of NFI Group Inc, has announced that Hong Kong’s largest bus operator The Kowloon Motor Bus Company (1933) Limited (KMB) has placed a firm order for 180 Enviro500 three-axle double-deckers.

All of the new buses are scheduled to be delivered in the first half of 2020. KMB’s order includes 76 short-wheelbase Enviro500 with a length of 11.3 metres as well as 104 longer vehicles that will be 12.8 metres long. Offering 80 and 98 seats respectively, they will be among the first buses for Hong Kong to be fitted with three-point belts on all seats.

The new Enviro500s will be powered by low emission Euro VI engines. Solar panels on the roof will support the energy requirements of the powerful air-conditioning system as well as other auxiliary loads. This new order continues a long-standing relationship between ADL and KMB, who have now ordered over 2,200 Enviro500 buses from ADL since the current generation model was launched in 2012.

Paul Davies, Managing Director Asia Pacific for ADL, commented: “We are delighted that to deliver its world class passenger service, KMB continues to place its confidence in ADL and with this latest order for 180 double deck buses. Designed and built with our unrivalled expertise in double-deck buses, our Enviro500 will excel in challenging topography and climate on some of the most arduous duty cycles in the world.”

83G/84D · 8 Oct 2019

Four Volvo / E400MMC deckers in green outside ADL Falkirk today. Registrations read on three as BU69 XYA/B/D, any idea on customer for these?

A number of white E200MMC’s also seen.

goldisgood · 8 Oct 2019

83G/84D said:
Four Volvo / E400MMC deckers in green outside ADL Falkirk today. Registrations read on three as BU69 XYA/B/D, any idea on customer for these?

A number of white E200MMC’s also seen.

If they are tri-axles then I think they are the Stagecoach busway ones?

class387 · 8 Oct 2019

83G/84D said:
Four Volvo / E400MMC deckers in green outside ADL Falkirk today. Registrations read on three as BU69 XYA/B/D, any idea on customer for these?

A number of white E200MMC’s also seen.

They're for Stagecoach Cambridge Busway services I think.

Any photos?

Eyersey468 · 9 Oct 2019

The new E400MMCs for East Yorkshire are awaiting delivery at Plaxtons, the first is due this week.

83G/84D · 9 Oct 2019

class387 said:
They're for Stagecoach Cambridge Busway services I think.

Any photos?

No photos as I was some distance away and aware of the security staff watching me. Unsure how tolerant they are so didn’t push my luck.

cnjb8 · 9 Oct 2019

Eyersey468 said:
The new E400MMCs for East Yorkshire are awaiting delivery at Plaxtons, the first is due this week.

Yep, first one is YX69NMA. GNEs are due this week too.

cnjb8 · 14 Nov 2019

Hello, Are the Volvo B5TLs 4 or 6 cylinder? I've heard they aren't the best for getting up hills for example.

Jordan Adam · 14 Nov 2019

cnjb8 said:
Hello, Are the Volvo B5TLs 4 or 6 cylinder? I've heard they aren't the best for getting up hills for example.

4 Cylinder, from experience B5TLs are quite nippy. However the engine is too small and under powered as such they generally suffer from advance wear and catastrophic engine failure.

CM · 14 Nov 2019

Jordan Adam said:
4 Cylinder, from experience B5TLs are quite nippy. However the engine is too small and under powered as such they generally suffer from advance wear and catastrophic engine failure.

I wouldn't say 240bhp is underpowered for a double-decker that's being used on city work however the B5TL's torque figure is only something like 918Nm compared to the B9TL. Remember, an off the shelf MCW Metrobus had less than 200bhp but the torque was well over the 1000Nm mark and possibly a decent amount more than even a B9TL.

Eyersey468 · 14 Nov 2019

cnjb8 said:
Hello, Are the Volvo B5TLs 4 or 6 cylinder? I've heard they aren't the best for getting up hills for example.

We use B5TLs on the Hull to York and Hull to Bridlington runs and I would agree the engines are too small, they find Arras Hill near Market Weighton hard work

deanmachine · 14 Nov 2019

Colin M said:
I wouldn't say 240bhp is underpowered for a double-decker that's being used on city work however the B5TL's torque figure is only something like 918Nm compared to the B9TL. Remember, an off the shelf MCW Metrobus had less than 200bhp but the torque was well over the 1000Nm mark and possibly a decent amount more than even a B9TL.

While the 260ps and 1000nm B9TL may not be too much difference in performance from the B5TL the B9 is a very understressed engine in comparison, the B9Rs for example have over 100ps more from the same engine.

MotCO · 14 Nov 2019

Jordan Adam said:
4 Cylinder, from experience B5TLs are quite nippy. However the engine is too small and under powered as such they generally suffer from advance wear and catastrophic engine failure.

I'm not in favour of working engines to their max - it is bound to lead to reduced working lives. The same applies to cars - I'm not sure that little 1.0 litre engines are going to be so robust as their older larger engines.

Mikey C · 14 Nov 2019

I do worry how long these small and highly stressed engines will last. ADL took the more conservative approach with the E400MMC and specced a 6 cylinder 6.7L unit

CM · 14 Nov 2019

Volvo seems to have lost the plot completely since they stopped making the B10x series of vehicles. In the past 20 years or so we've had the B7L, B7TL, B7RLE, B7R, B12M, B12B/BT, B11R, B9R, B9TL, B13R, B8R, B8RLE, B8L, B5LH and B5TL. No wonder they don't sell as many buses as they used to when they seem to bring a new chassis/engine out every few years compared to the B10x series which was around from the late 70s/early 80s right up until 2000/2001.

Bornin1980s · 15 Nov 2019

Eyersey468 said:
We use B5TLs on the Hull to York and Hull to Bridlington runs and I would agree the engines are too small, they find Arras Hill near Market Weighton hard work

Thing is, wouldn't the operator always favour smaller engines because of their lower fuel consumption?

Swanny200 · 15 Nov 2019

Bornin1980s said:
Thing is, wouldn't the operator always favour smaller engines because of their lower fuel consumption?

Yes there is that, but when engines are worked harder they will consume more fuel anyway, especially when it sounds like the driver is having to strangle a cat to get it up hill in a lower gear. I seem to recall ford's first incarnation of the Ecoboost engine being lauded as the greatest petrol engine ever and within the first couple of years so many of them coming back faulty because they were being overworked, I think they have it sorted now though. I do wonder if there is a need for a hybrid system where if the bus detects it is going up hill (an inclinometer maybe), the electric engine comes on and gives it that extra little boost, but the rest of the time the main engine would do the work, would help for buses on hilly routes.

Jordan Adam · 15 Nov 2019

Bornin1980s said:
Thing is, wouldn't the operator always favour smaller engines because of their lower fuel consumption?

You say that, but a number of operators have been requesting a bigger engine and looking at refitting some vehicles. The Streetdeck suffers the same problem, hence why Wright were/are now offering a larger engine.

Goldfish62 · 15 Nov 2019

Bornin1980s said:
Thing is, wouldn't the operator always favour smaller engines because of their lower fuel consumption?

I've got a 1.4l engine in my car. If I'd gone for the 1.6l version the fuel consumption would be better.

LOL The Irony · 15 Nov 2019

Goldfish62 said:
I've got a 1.4l engine in my car. If I'd gone for the 1.6l version the fuel consumption would be better.

Correct. Smaller displacement doesn't always equal more fuel efficient.

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