• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Bus Manufacturer News & Discussion

cnjb8

Established Member
Joined
26 Feb 2019
Messages
2,126
Location
Nottingham
Thank you for the responses!
Volvo seems to have lost the plot completely since they stopped making the B10x series of vehicles. In the past 20 years or so we've had the B7L, B7TL, B7RLE, B7R, B12M, B12B/BT, B11R, B9R, B9TL, B13R, B8R, B8RLE, B8L, B5LH and B5TL. No wonder they don't sell as many buses as they used to when they seem to bring a new chassis/engine out every few years compared to the B10x series which was around from the late 70s/early 80s right up until 2000/2001.
I disagree, the B7 and to a degree B12, B9, B11, B8R and B11R are successful. I think judging by how people have answered my question is that ADL has taken up a lot of their order. I dont think Wright building quality has helped either and people being unwilling to switch to MCV.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

F Great Eastern

Established Member
Joined
2 Apr 2009
Messages
3,589
Location
East Anglia
Thank you for the responses!

I disagree, the B7 and to a degree B12, B9, B11, B8R and B11R are successful. I think judging by how people have answered my question is that ADL has taken up a lot of their order. I dont think Wright building quality has helped either and people being unwilling to switch to MCV.

Indeed. Many of those have different target markets and sell better in other countries or are designed for coaches or other non bog standard bus types.

Also the push towards lightweight fuel efficent buses and ever tighter Euro specifications mean that things have to move forward at quicker pace than in 80s and 90s
 

Jordan Adam

Established Member
Joined
12 Sep 2017
Messages
5,526
Location
Aberdeen
When it comes to coaches Volvo are still really at the top of the game. The B7R, B8R, B9R, B11R, B12M & B12B have all been successful products, the main reason sales of the B10M may appear higher is because it covered a wider market (Single Deck Bus, Articulated Bus, Coach, Double deck etc) and was in production longer although did evolve quite a bit through the years. That's not to say all their products were perfect, the B7R was often deemed too under-powered (although was quite revolutionary in developing countries), while B9Rs can be plagued with reliability issues, however the B12M/B12B is quite highly regarded (arguably just as much so as the B10M was). And the current B11R offering isn't all that bad.

Really the B8RLE is their first single decker that has seen a real downfall in sales. Mostly because operators are looking more towards light weight single deckers now more than ever. This is where i think Volvo have miss a opportunity, when the B5TL and B8RLE were launched in the UK Volvo should've really introduced a light weight B5RLE to compete with the likes of the Streetlite and Enviro200. The B5TL on the other hand got off to a good start but has massively declined, the last B5TL delivered/registered in the UK was in Summer 2018.
 

Mikey C

Established Member
Joined
11 Feb 2013
Messages
6,843
When it comes to coaches Volvo are still really at the top of the game. The B7R, B8R, B9R, B11R, B12M & B12B have all been successful products, the main reason sales of the B10M may appear higher is because it covered a wider market (Single Deck Bus, Articulated Bus, Coach, Double deck etc) and was in production longer although did evolve quite a bit through the years. That's not to say all their products were perfect, the B7R was often deemed too under-powered (although was quite revolutionary in developing countries), while B9Rs can be plagued with reliability issues, however the B12M/B12B is quite highly regarded (arguably just as much so as the B10M was). And the current B11R offering isn't all that bad.

Really the B8RLE is their first single decker that has seen a real downfall in sales. Mostly because operators are looking more towards light weight single deckers now more than ever. This is where i think Volvo have miss a opportunity, when the B5TL and B8RLE were launched in the UK Volvo should've really introduced a light weight B5RLE to compete with the likes of the Streetlite and Enviro200. The B5TL on the other hand got off to a good start but has massively declined, the last B5TL delivered/registered in the UK was in Summer 2018.

On the other hand the B5LH hybrid has been a big success, so it's not as if Volvo have lost all the double decker market. Indeed it would be interesting to see the sales splits for the E400, B5 and Streetdeck between diesel and hybrid versions in recent years
 

Swanny200

Member
Joined
18 Sep 2010
Messages
671
Was it not the B7R that Plaxton released their Prima model on, I remember at the time someone I knew who ran one said that it ran like a dog, I'm sure that that was when I noticed the troubles beginning especially when the B10 was lauded as such a brilliant engine and remember the B6 that they used for the midibus market in the early 90's
 

cnjb8

Established Member
Joined
26 Feb 2019
Messages
2,126
Location
Nottingham
The B5TL on the other hand got off to a good start but has massively declined, the last B5TL delivered/registered in the UK was in Summer 2018.
I thought that 3 were ordered by a Preston operator and were photographed at the docks but haven't been delivered.
 

Hophead

Established Member
Joined
5 Apr 2013
Messages
1,193
I see from today's LOTS news update that TfL route 43 now has an almost complete complement of BYD/ADL E400EVs, with the last 2 delivered and awaiting entry into service. Conversely, there are still 15 Optare MetroDecker EVs outstanding - I'm not entirely sure that any have been delivered since the initial batch (there are 6 in use). What on earth is going on at Optare? I thought that these were to precede the Reading batch of MetroDeckers, but they too are outstanding!

If you were in the market for some double-deck buses, would this give you confidence? As I think I've said before, MetroDeckers have been in development for years now but, even with orders, buses actually in service are negligible.
 

borage

Member
Joined
21 Feb 2018
Messages
142
What on earth is going on at Optare? I thought that these were to precede the Reading batch of MetroDeckers, but they too are outstanding!

According to the latest (December 2019) issue of BUSES magazine, the Reading ones are now due in the spring – there were some "teething issues" with the demonstrator which have now been resolved, and the latest postponement is surprisingly related to Wrightbus going into administration, which affected some suppliers Wrights and Optare have in common.
 

Jordan Adam

Established Member
Joined
12 Sep 2017
Messages
5,526
Location
Aberdeen
I see it's being claimed that the new Reading Metrodeckers will be the high specification deckers in the UK. Can't say i'd exactly agree giving that the Enviro400City demo alone is higher spec, and there's many E400MMCs and Geminis to the same and/or higher spec.
 

radamfi

Established Member
Joined
29 Oct 2009
Messages
9,267
I see from today's LOTS news update that TfL route 43 now has an almost complete complement of BYD/ADL E400EVs, with the last 2 delivered and awaiting entry into service. Conversely, there are still 15 Optare MetroDecker EVs outstanding - I'm not entirely sure that any have been delivered since the initial batch (there are 6 in use). What on earth is going on at Optare? I thought that these were to precede the Reading batch of MetroDeckers, but they too are outstanding!

I've ridden both the 43 and 134 and the Optares seem to give a significantly better ride and also seem a bit nippier.
 

Hophead

Established Member
Joined
5 Apr 2013
Messages
1,193
According to the latest (December 2019) issue of BUSES magazine, the Reading ones are now due in the spring – there were some "teething issues" with the demonstrator which have now been resolved, and the latest postponement is surprisingly related to Wrightbus going into administration, which affected some suppliers Wrights and Optare have in common.
So, the Wright's problems turned out to be, not an opportunity for Optare, but a problem for them as well?
 

Hophead

Established Member
Joined
5 Apr 2013
Messages
1,193
I've ridden both the 43 and 134 and the Optares seem to give a significantly better ride and also seem a bit nippier.

I've only ever read good reviews, but the company seems largely unable to translate these into orders and, even where there are orders, actually get the buses onto the road.
 

Beemax

Member
Joined
10 Dec 2018
Messages
141
I've only ever read good reviews, but the company seems largely unable to translate these into orders and, even where there are orders, actually get the buses onto the road.
Weren't there supposed to be some for York as well?
 

Volvodart

Established Member
Joined
12 Jun 2010
Messages
2,389
Brakes put on electric bus trial

https://www.itv.com/news/channel/2019-12-03/brakes-put-on-electric-bus-trial/

Brakes put on electric bus trial

The Metrodecker EV bus was being loaned to LibertyBus for six weeks to see how suitable it would be. Credit: ITV Channel TV
The new electric bus being trialled in Jersey has come to an end.

However after repeated breakdowns the Chief Executive has said that bus is not right for the island and a different electric bus is needed.

It's two year old technology, and electric bus technology is improving all the time. So this is not the end of electric buses in the island. We're actually in talks with the supplier and I'm hopeful we can do another trial with a different bus in the New Year. We all want to be greener, and we're keen to use low carbon technology, so we're hopeful that the newer buses will be suitable here. But we'll know more next year.

– KEVIN HART - CHIEF EXECUTIVE LIBERTY BUS
The short history of the electric bus in Jersey:
May 2019 - The Government declared a ‘Climate Emergency’
June 2019 - Jersey’s infrastructure minister was in discussion with LibertyBus to electrify their bus fleet.
August 2019 - The Metrodecker EV hit the streets of Jersey, becoming the first electric bus to be trialed on the island.
August 2019 - We take a look at the new bus
September 2019 - The bus breaks down
October 16 2019 - The bus is fixed
October 17 2019 - The bus breaks down again
2020 - LibertyBus hope to trial a different electric bus
If electric buses were to replace the current diesel bus fleet it would reduce the islands carbon footprint by 3,000 tonnes per year.

It had been hoped the bus, which operated on route number 15 between St Helier and the airport, would assist Jersey in becoming carbon neutral by 2030.

Last updated Tue 3 Dec 2019
 

carlberry

Established Member
Joined
19 Dec 2014
Messages
3,169
Good news for manufacturers from Labour's new announcement of 100% electric buses by 2030. That's double the usual replacement cycle so twice as many orders without somebody comes out with a lot of retrofit options.
 

Volvodart

Established Member
Joined
12 Jun 2010
Messages
2,389
ADL ENTERS FRAMEWORK AGREEMENT WITH NTA IRELAND FOR UP TO 600 DOUBLE-DECK ENVIRO400ER PLUG-IN HYBRID BUSES

https://www.alexander-dennis.com/me...double-deck-enviro400er-plug-in-hybrid-buses/

ADL ENTERS FRAMEWORK AGREEMENT WITH NTA IRELAND FOR UP TO 600 DOUBLE-DECK ENVIRO400ER PLUG-IN HYBRID BUSES
Published: 30 Jan 2020

Alexander Dennis Limited (“ADL”), a subsidiary of NFI Group Inc. (“NFI”), one of the world’s largest independent global bus manufacturers, today announced that it has signed a framework agreement with the Republic of Ireland’s National Transport Authority (NTA) for the delivery of up to 600 Enviro400ER double deck hybrid buses, capable of running in zero emission mode for at least 2.5 kilometres. The agreement includes an initial firm order for 100 buses.

The single supplier framework agreement covers the purchase of double deck diesel-electric hybrid buses and will run for up to five years. ADL was selected in a comprehensive procurement process in which the company provided the most economically advantageous offer. The first 100 buses have been firmly ordered and are to be delivered in autumn 2020 and the NTA will be able to exercise options for a further 500 vehicles to reflect vehicle requirements over the coming years.

The Enviro400ER is a double deck diesel-electric hybrid, capable of at least 2.5 kilometres continuous electric range with no exhaust emissions. It utilises the BAE Systems Series-ER hybrid system with a 32kWh next-generation lithium-ion battery energy storage system that can be charged externally via a plug-in connection, meeting the requirements of the European Union’s Clean Vehicles Directive.

In addition to its continuous zero tailpipe emissions range, the Enviro400ER switches off its diesel engine at low speeds during approach to and departure from stops and when stationary.

The buses will be 11.0 metres long and will have City style bodywork which has been adapted to suit requirements in the Republic of Ireland. The first 100 buses will seat 66 passengers and will have separate spaces for wheelchair users and passengers travelling with buggies. The framework agreement provides the opportunity to adjust the specifications of further vehicles to suit other operating requirements.

Alexander Dennis Chief Executive Colin Robertson comments: “We are delighted to have been chosen by Ireland’s National Transport Authority for the supply of up to 600 clean buses. Our Enviro400ER electric range hybrid bus will reduce emissions and passengers will love the smooth journey experience, while drivers are bound to enjoy a great working environment in its spacious cab. This order confirms our strategy of leading the market with the widest range of low and zero emission buses, enabling us to offer the right vehicle for each requirement.”

DOWNLOADS
 

JE1672

New Member
Joined
11 Apr 2018
Messages
4
So its Lothian left before kicking Volvo out from the UK and Ireland market (apart from coach) entirely...
 

37114

Member
Joined
4 Jul 2019
Messages
332
So its Lothian left before kicking Volvo out from the UK and Ireland market (apart from coach) entirely...
Not really, even Stagecoach have bought a few Volvos recently. Also a few still sold into London via Metroline amongst others
 

37114

Member
Joined
4 Jul 2019
Messages
332
If Volvo do stop selling buses in the UK, I won't be fussed. At least ADL, optare and Bamfords have manufacturing plants in the UK (for now at least) we will need all the jobs we can get when Brexit properly bites.
 

F Great Eastern

Established Member
Joined
2 Apr 2009
Messages
3,589
Location
East Anglia
Allegedly there was supposed to be a Volvo backed Wright bid but because of what happened to Wright, there was no formal bid left in the contest at decision time so ADL were always going to be quids in without any bid from the market leader in Ireland.

Interesting though that it seems it's a variant based specifically for the NTA rather than identical to the other versions of the same vehicle. Seems to be City based rather than MMC?
 
Last edited:

37114

Member
Joined
4 Jul 2019
Messages
332
Interesting though that it seems it's a variant based specifically for the NTA rather than identical to the other versions of the same vehicle. Seems to be City based rather than MMC?
With 600 vehicles potentially up for grab, I imagine NTA would have had a significant amount of sway with ADL on the spec so choosing the City styling pack wouldn't be an issue, it is interesting that the 3 seed vehicles were standard MMC vehicles though.
 

MotCO

Established Member
Joined
25 Aug 2014
Messages
4,119
The arguments previously were that Volvo would have the advantage since they had the support network which ADL lacked. Presumably ADL will need to set up a support network which could led to further sales in Eire. Where does this leave Bamford Bus?
 

F Great Eastern

Established Member
Joined
2 Apr 2009
Messages
3,589
Location
East Anglia
The arguments previously were that Volvo would have the advantage since they had the support network which ADL lacked. Presumably ADL will need to set up a support network which could led to further sales in Eire. Where does this leave Bamford Bus?

Those arguments were very true and still are, the problem is that Volvo's pitch for the hybrid order was based on subcontracting Wright to do the bodywork and since the tender was launched Wrightbus collapsed.

I am not sure if there is any body builder that Volvo could have teamed up with, even if they wanted to, to deliver the number of vehicles that the NTA need over the next few years and by autumn this year, on their own hybrid technology.

Bamford Bus certainly were not able to do it and in any case by the time the buyout happened I believe the tender was finished anyway so it's a bit of a moot point at the end of the day.

Volvo effectively has lost their market position in Ireland because of the fact that their trusted partner has collapsed and given ADL an open goal which they were hardly going to miss at the end of the day.
 

Mikey C

Established Member
Joined
11 Feb 2013
Messages
6,843
Not really, even Stagecoach have bought a few Volvos recently. Also a few still sold into London via Metroline amongst others

Lots of Volvo B5LHs in London in recent years. my area is full of them (whether Wrights or MCV bodied)
 

Top