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Northern Class 331: Construction/Introduction Updates

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td97

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Booked 6 car. ASDO... ;)
I'm amazed. A 319 (or whatever diesel substitution is summoned) is wholly inadequate at peak. Northern actually matching demand with an adequate supply would be impressive.
 
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jonesy3001

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So with 331 111 that's all the 4 car 331s in use.
I believe 331 101, 104, 106, 108, 109, 110 are at Neville Hill with 102, 103, 105, 107, 111, 112 at Allerton (6 each).
Neville Hill will need 7 units to replace the 321s and 322s plus possibly for 333s out of service.
K
probably have a mixture of 331/0s as well to make up the numbers and use them to double up as well.
 

DJH1971

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It appears they are now on the Crewe (via Manchester) services.. It's the first time I've seen one in passenger use on this route.

I have just been from Manchester Oxford Road to St Helens Junction on 331112.

Certainly quick off the mark out of the platforms.
 
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td97

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319382 was flavour of the month with wheelflats earlier on a Hazel Grove service. No 331s around that I could establish.
 

YorksDMU

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I was on the 15.55 from Wakefield Westgate to Leeds today formed of 331108. My first time on a 331. I was most impressed overall. There was some banging from the bogies, but it’s still a much better ride than in any of the Pacers. And, as mentioned before, the acceleration is remarkable - very quick off the mark.
It was full to standing, but then all trains were today, but room for more passengers if needed. So I’ll be happy to travel on a 331 again, unlike a Pacer.
Here’s a photograph which I took on arrival at Leeds.

30062A57-4A16-4D76-8C71-B473D5A8ADF0.jpeg
 
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Hi guys.

On a new phone and dates gor completely mixed up. Diagrams changed today, no Hazel Grove runs on Sunday so Monday is the start day. Sorry for the confusion.
 
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Chris125

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On a new phone and dates gor completely mixed up. Diagrams changed today, no Hazel Grove runs on Sunday so Monday is the start day. Sorry for the confusion.

Did they start today? I've not seen it mentioned anywhere.
 

Grannyjoans

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The 331's are noisy compared to a 319. Especially when braking. Apart from that they are an improvement.

The announcements are too loud and frequent on both types.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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Roger Ford says in December Modern Railways, that CAF EMUs (class 331 and 397) have electrical interference problems around Preston which has led to some operational restrictions in the area.
Apparently they produce spikes in the OHLE voltage which class 92s in particular object to.
It particularly happens when raising/lowering pantographs.
The area affected is Euxton to Catterall on the WCML, and the Blackpool North branch.

He's also posted the reliability figures for the Northern CAF fleets (among other new stock).
For 331/1, MTIN (miles per technical incident) was 1710 for period 6.
For comparison, Hitachi's Scotrail 385 fleet is at 32545.
 

jfollows

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Only to amplify the previous post, here's Roger's email on the subject of interference dated 18 November:
Class 331 upsetting other traction

Since Northern’s CAF Class 331 EMUs entered service there have been reports of Electro-Magnetic Compatibility (EMC) issues. The first came in October when the regenerative braking had to be switched off.

Where the Hitachi 800 Series generated Electro-Magnetic Interference which affected lineside communications, the Class 331 appears to generate spikes in the 25kV overhead line supply which upset other traction.

This power supply compatibility-related issue is limited to the Preston area, between Euxton to the south, Blackpool to the West and Catterall to the North. Within this area limitations have had to be imposed on both the Northern Class 331 and TransPennine Express’ similar Class 397 EMUs.

According to a Restriction notice published on 4 November, Class 331 and 397 units stabled in this area must have their pantographs down. Before pantographs are raised in Preston Croft Street sidings permission must be sought from Preston signal box. The signaller will then check that there are no Class 92 hauled services in the area before giving permission.

According to Informed Sources the problem is caused by resonance generated by the traction package when it is taking only power for auxiliary system.

Resonance creates spikes in the traction power supply high enough for protection systems to shut down the converters in the Class 92 electric locomotives hauling the Caledonian Sleepers. The converters can’t be reset until the Class 331 has left the electrical section supplying the Class 92.

Why should an EMU sitting around doing nothing cause problems? The best theory from my electric traction gurus is instability in the converter which provides auxiliary power.

When a train is running the auxiliary converter has plenty to do, supplying the air compressors, heating or air conditioning as well as keeping the batteries topped up. Stabled there are none of these load.

Designing a controller to cope with two such widely different demands is not easy. In some cases it is easier to have a dual mode controller with a separate mode for very light loads. This was the case on Eurostar.

A test with modified software was scheduled on 5 November, which it was hoped would resolve the problem. Given that it is ‘only’ Version 7, CAF is not yet in the Siemens or Bombardier league where any software Version not in double figures doesn’t count.
 

samuelmorris

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Roger Ford says in December Modern Railways, that CAF EMUs (class 331 and 397) have electrical interference problems around Preston which has led to some operational restrictions in the area.
Apparently they produce spikes in the OHLE voltage which class 92s in particular object to.
It particularly happens when raising/lowering pantographs.
The area affected is Euxton to Catterall on the WCML, and the Blackpool North branch.

He's also posted the reliability figures for the Northern CAF fleets (among other new stock).
For 331/1, MTIN (miles per technical incident) was 1710 for period 6.
For comparison, Hitachi's Scotrail 385 fleet is at 32545.
Worth noting that despite the appalling score of the 331s and general remarks about the quality of Stadler vs. CAF products, Northern's CAF fleet is significantly outperforming GA's 755s which are bottom of the class excluding the woeful 230s.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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Worth noting that despite the appalling score of the 331s and general remarks about the quality of Stadler vs. CAF products, Northern's CAF fleet is significantly outperforming GA's 755s which are bottom of the class excluding the woeful 230s.

I didn't mention the Stadler 755s because they are bi-modes operating only on diesel for now, so not really comparable with 331s.
There aren't any other plain AC EMUs to compare with since the 385s.
 

samuelmorris

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I didn't mention the Stadler 755s because they are bi-modes operating only on diesel for now, so not really comparable with 331s.
There aren't any other plain AC EMUs to compare with since the 385s.
Sure, there's a lot more going on there to explain the lower figure, but worth mentioning because a few people have been quite vocal about the perceived quality of the CAF offering compared to, what will on other TOCs and potential future bids be its rivals.

Instead of looking to the 385s for the 'best case', however, we should really be looking at 350s and 707s. Yes the 707s are DC, but those are some seriously impressive numbers.
 

Roast Veg

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Roger Ford says in December Modern Railways, that CAF EMUs (class 331 and 397) have electrical interference problems around Preston which has led to some operational restrictions in the area.
Apparently they produce spikes in the OHLE voltage which class 92s in particular object to.
It particularly happens when raising/lowering pantographs.
The area affected is Euxton to Catterall on the WCML, and the Blackpool North branch.
The 92s are incredibly sensitive souls - they've had exactly this issue before with other traction on the NLL.
 
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