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TPE Nova 3 (Class 68 + Mk5s) updates and withdrawal from service

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yorkie

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Can we please just stick to the diagrams and updates directly related to workings only in this thread please.

Thanks :)
 

68011

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68028/TP06 working 1E39 13:56 LIV-SCA terminated at MCV then ran ecs to Longsight due to no guard being available (note it was not due to no driver as reported on journey check)

1F76 17:44 SCA-LIV & 1J53 20:56 LIV-SYB are also cancelled as a result.
 
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sjpowermac

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68028 plus TP06 (loco on Liverpool end)
5E29 07:09 Longsight-Liverpool LS
1E29 08:56 Liverpool LS-Scarborough
1F66 12:41 Scarborough-Liverpool LS
1E43 15:52 Liverpool LS-Scarborough
1F80 19:44 Scarborough-Liverpool LS
5H93 22:52 Liverpool LS-Longsight

68027 plus TP09 (loco Liverpool end)
5M04 07:24 Longsight-Manchester Victoria
9M04 08:25 Manchester Victoria-Liverpool
1E31 09:55 Liverpool-Scarborough
1F68 13:44 Scarborough-Liverpool
1E45 16:52 Liverpool-Scarborough
1P42 20:42 Scarborough-Manchester Airport
5H42 23:40 Manchester Airport-Longsight
 

FFFC 57

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It's absolutely awful considering they were planned originally to enter service from autumn 2018!!! I believe the first MK5's arrived in May 2018, the last of 13 sets just a few days ago and we've got a pathetic 2 sets in daily service at the minute.
Well if you think you can sort the issues out quicker, please do. I'd love more sets in service. :)
 

sjpowermac

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Well if you think you can sort the issues out quicker, please do. I'd love more sets in service. :)
I have no knowledge of the technical side, but with TP09 now on its 12 consecutive day in traffic, I’d say that’s quite a streak for this early on in service:)

Again I have no inside knowledge but I think the number of drivers/guards trained up seems to be one of the things that’s currently preventing more Nova 3 diagrams.
 

JonathanH

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I have no knowledge of the technical side, but with TP09 now on its 12 consecutive day in traffic, I’d say that’s quite a streak for this early on in service:)

Again I have no inside knowledge but I think the number of drivers/guards trained up seems to be one of the things that’s currently preventing more Nova 3 diagrams.

That and the simple issue of having suitable diagrams to put them out on - they can basically only run Liverpool to Scarborough (and possibly to the Airport at the ends of the day) so need self contained diagrams on that route that don't end at York or go to Middlesbrough or Newcastle. The start and end points need to balance.

It isn't really much different from what is going on with the 802s - they can really only work Liverpool to Newcastle because of how the diagrams work and need to finish at one of those locations overnight. So whilst they have now used 9 of the 19 802s (802201/3/4/7/9/10/2/4/8) in service there are still only 2 diagrams in use each day. That needs to be something like 15 or 16 in four weeks time.

68+Mk5 introduction is slower - the long term plan in RTT appeared to imply four at the December timetable change and six or seven in mid February but clearly that is conjecture.

https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...s-no-images-please.190693/page-3#post-4234781
 

JonathanH

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68+Mk5 introduction is slower - the long term plan in RTT appeared to imply four at the December timetable change and six or seven in mid February but clearly that is conjecture.

https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...s-no-images-please.190693/page-3#post-4234781

As noted in another thread, this news story confirms four diagrams from the December timetable change with two sets overnight at Longsight and two at Scarborough.

https://www.yorkshirecoastradio.com...boroughs-new-train-depot-to-open-in-december/

Should be diagrams 1, 2, 5 and 7 from the link in the quote.
 

nicolaboo

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At Leeds awaiting the 12:06 Nova3 to Liv. It's on the boards as capping at Vic.
 

Kieran1990

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Looks like no MK5 out today
05:56 LIV-SCA starting at York plat2 assuming Class 185 substitution
06:56- cancelled through out.

both reasons on RTT is ‘problem with at the depot’
 

sjpowermac

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Looks like no MK5 out today
05:56 LIV-SCA starting at York plat2 assuming Class 185 substitution
06:56- cancelled through out.

both reasons on RTT is ‘problem with at the depot’
On TPE Journey Check the reasons are given as follows:

1E23
‘Alterations to this service are due to a shortage of train crew.’

1E25
‘Alterations to this service are due to a fault on this train.’

Either way, not the best of mornings;)
 

Ben Bow

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1F62, the 10.41 Scarborough-Liverpool, is starting at Man Vic at 12.56 "due to a fault on this train" according to JourneyCheck, that could conceivably be a 68 off Longsight.

It is disappointing that with, I think its 5 sets available now, not one was fit enough to start at least one diagram from the start of day. Ramping up to four diagrams from 16 December looks ambitious right now.
 

BeHereNow

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Transpennine are doing all they can to avoid putting these trains into service, to avoid paying for them and avoid the complexity of having various train types.

They will never make it to Middlesbrough.
 

sjpowermac

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Sorry if its the wrong thread, but 68020/029 and one more are heading to Longsight from York this morning:

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/N07654/2019-11-21/detailed
I understand the other one is 68024.

I wouldn’t worry too much about which thread, I think it would take a PhD in Philosophy to choose between the many TPE threads;)

I wonder if having one diagram rather than two yesterday was down to train crew or shortage of serviceable sets?

On a plus side two, I’m sure there will have been some glitches to iron out after the service introduction, best to get those sorted across all the sets ahead of December when I assume TPE will be depending on having Nova 3 in traffic.

There have certainly been some different versions of the passenger info screens knocking about, and the reservations have often been paper ones. Not deal breakers but the sort of things that want fixing and bringing up to date.

As always, no inside knowledge claimed and happy to be corrected:)
 

JonathanH

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On a plus side two, I’m sure there will have been some glitches to iron out after the service introduction, best to get those sorted across all the sets ahead of December when I assume TPE will be depending on having Nova 3 in traffic.

Yes, but only four at most. If the plan is to double up some 185 workings then it will presumably be possible to 'pinch' them to substitute for non available 68+Mk5 just as it is at the moment.
 

sjpowermac

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Yes, but only four at most. If the plan is to double up some 185 workings then it will presumably be possible to 'pinch' them to substitute for non available 68+Mk5 just as it is at the moment.
Yes, of course, four at most.

I hear what you are saying but perhaps there must come a point when ad-hoc use/pre-service introduction/soft-launch comes to an end and a fixed number of sets are needed each day.

During November 68027 plus TP09 completed 12 consecutive days in traffic, often with just four or five hours on Longsight between diagrams. On the face of it, that seems to be a pretty good showing;)
 

FFFC 57

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Transpennine are doing all they can to avoid putting these trains into service, to avoid paying for them and avoid the complexity of having various train types.

They will never make it to Middlesbrough.
Have you proof to back these claims?
 

sjpowermac

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Have you proof to back these claims?
I’ve already asked the same question with no reply, so I assume the answer is ‘no’;)
What makes you think TPE are avoiding putting the Nova 3 trains into service?

I think it has been known since August that the Nova 3 would be taking a backseat due to needing to get Nova 1 in service (due to timetable commitments extending Liverpool Newcastle trains through to Edinburgh) and Nova 2 (due to Class 350s going off lease).

I think the plan has been to operate two daily diagrams, subject to sufficient trained staff being available. That’s exactly what has happened.

It was reported in the railway press in September that there would be four daily diagrams from the December timetable change, something confirmed earlier this week in an interview with (I think!) the engineering director for TPE:

https://www.yorkshirecoastradio.com...boroughs-new-train-depot-to-open-in-december/

Regarding Middlesborough, I’ve not heard any announcements on that. On one of the other threads there has been chatter about Mk5a being used on other routes but I think at this stage that’s speculation.

If you have any sources to back up your claims, please do share with us. I don’t have any inside knowledge, just a nosey loco spotter;)
 

BeHereNow

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What would you like? A recording of the conversations?

If they do get them all in for May 2020, great. I'm on the edge of my seat waiting for a decent service.
 
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sjpowermac

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What would you like? A recording of the conversations?

If they do get them all in for May 2020, great. I'm on the edge of my seat waiting for a decent service.
So your answer is ‘no I don’t have any proof but I’ll repeat the same thing anyhow’.

The last time I passed Tyne Yard there were a load of Azuma trains there. By your reasoning are we to assume that’s because LNER are trying to avoid putting them into service?

There are actually four Nova 3 sets in storage.

Nova 3 sets accepted and in service with TPE:
TP09 12.04.2019
TP06 15.05.2019
TP04 04.07.2019
TP11 11.07.2019
TP12 03.10.2019

Sets which have undergone Fault Free Running
TP08
TP13

Awaiting Fault Free Running
TP07 (arrived in the UK 26.06.2019)
TP10 (arrived in the UK 23.10.2019)

Stored
TP02 13.08.2019
TP05 13.08.2019
TP01 23.08.2019
TP03 12.09.2019
 

BeHereNow

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So you've just explained:

- there are sets that have completed fault free running, but not been accepted.
- others have been put into storage.

If, as others have explained, no driver will sign both types of new train, what is the hold up in training more drivers on Nova3s?

It doesn't look like they are doing it as fast as they can.
 

sjpowermac

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So you've just explained:

- there are sets that have completed fault free running, but not been accepted.
- others have been put into storage.

If, as others have explained, no driver will sign both types of new train, what is the hold up in training more drivers on Nova3s?

It doesn't look like they are doing it as fast as they can.
As has been mentioned previously, it has been the intention since August at least to focus on getting staff trained on Nova 1 and Nova 2 first.

I don’t work for TPE and must emphasise I have no inside knowledge but I’d assume some train crew diagrams may have been altered to accommodate that training, hence not enough train crew to accommodate more training on Nova 3 than is already been done.

If you read further up the thread there’s also the matter of diagrams, together with platforming at Manchester Airport.
 

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