West Lothian buses

TheEastCoaster · 14 Nov 2019

oldman said:
Same as last year - probably adequate.

I guess the 217 will follow a different route from the X17 so has a new number to avoid confusion - or create a different sort of confusion.

Maybe, but might just be because it will be serving all the stops along Corstorphine corridor! or maybe it will serve other parts of Livingston that won’t be covered by other bus services on that day?

Still surprised the X18 is extending to Fauldhouse on Xmas day, just wonder what route it will take after Whitburn

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Tartanarmy85 · 14 Nov 2019

I didn't see the X18 say going to Fauldhouse

Tartanarmy85 · 14 Nov 2019

Tartanarmy85 said:
I didn't see the X18 say going to Fauldhouse

Take that back see now

Siemens Trains · 14 Nov 2019

Jordan Adam said:
Hourly service on boxing day for the 43? Seems rather poor if you ask me!

Yes, seems a bit measly especially with no trains on that day. However the 41 is running again on Boxing Day and will probably be half hourly, so that should satisfy most people along the route. In the days without a 41 on Boxing Day, there could be crowding and delays on the parallel First and Stagecoach services. Half hourly on the 43 needs four buses, which is quite expensive.
The 41 has disappeared on New Year's Day this time round - anecdotally, last year's loadings appeared very low compared to the 43 which was obviously rammed.
Frequency on other Lothian Country routes will be defined by West Lothian Council, so I wouldn't expect anything more frequent than hourly on the three subsidised days (other than where routes run on top of each other).

scotrail158713 · 14 Nov 2019

Jordan Adam said:
Hourly service on boxing day for the 43? Seems rather poor if you ask me!

ECB routes are usually hourly on Boxing Day. Can’t see the 43 being overly busy.

LiviCrazy · 14 Nov 2019

Will either of them run a New Years Eve Service? Even running from Ingliston to connect to the late night Trams? Always been one of the slightly more frustrating things being in West Lothian is being unable to partake in Edinburgh’s New Years Festivities without driving?

TheEastCoaster · 14 Nov 2019

LiviCrazy said:
Will either of them run a New Years Eve Service? Even running from Ingliston to connect to the late night Trams? Always been one of the slightly more frustrating things being in West Lothian is being unable to partake in Edinburgh’s New Years Festivities without driving?

Well LCB ran the N43 and N38 2 years in a row! might see them again no doubt and maybe the N28

Makes me wonder if this time ECB will have the nighthawks running after the bells this year

Weemidi135 · 14 Nov 2019

LiviCrazy said:
Will either of them run a New Years Eve Service? Even running from Ingliston to connect to the late night Trams? Always been one of the slightly more frustrating things being in West Lothian is being unable to partake in Edinburgh’s New Years Festivities without driving?

find out next week when that information is released

overthewater · 14 Nov 2019

Is the fare cut the only thing First is going to do? Problem is the route is not busting with people right now on a 15min service, Will First have a bus on Stand by at depot to push out in to service if there is a gap?

Also 63 is very busy on a Saturday, Why is this? are people buying day tickets? or is it singles?

Bluebirdscot66 · 14 Nov 2019

overthewater said:
Is the fare cut the only thing First is going to do? Problem is the route is not busting with people right now on a 15min service, Will First have a bus on Stand by at depot to push out in to service if there is a

Also 63 is very busy on a Saturday, Why is this? are people buying day tickets? or is it singles?

I highly doubt they have any spare buses in depot to do that

scotrail158713 · 15 Nov 2019

TheEastCoaster said:
Makes me wonder if this time ECB will have the nighthawks running after the bells this year

I’ll be more surprised if ECB don’t run at least the N113 as that runs 7 nights a week anyway - the N106 & N124 are less likely, but not implausible.

jb66 · 15 Nov 2019

I just seen on Facebook First Bus are expanding zone L to compete with Lothian x38

Jordan Adam · 15 Nov 2019

jb66 said:
I just seen on Facebook First Bus are expanding zone L to compete with Lothian x38

This was mentioned on the last page, seems quite a logical move though. Although i suspect when it comes to the 38 First will need to do more than alter some fares.

Siemens Trains · 15 Nov 2019

Jordan Adam said:
This was mentioned on the last page, seems quite a logical move though. Although i suspect when it comes to the 38 First will need to do more than alter some fares.

Yes, you wonder what stopped them from doing this type of thing in the past, suggesting First have rested on their laurels while passenger sentiment has turned against them. None of the ScotRail constraints have applied for some time. Even before Lothian Country's X38 has put rubber to the road I feel First's 38 is doomed east of Linlithgow.

overthewater · 15 Nov 2019

The Zone tickets have been a complete an utter mess. FSE has been trying to sort it out even since it come in 15 years ago. Back then it was cheap not now since all the price increases have taken place. There were plans for a big shack up, however the changes were to radical, and were overruled, hence the new falkirk ticket and other changes.

Linlithgow for whatever reason was left behide while these changes took place. Stirling is another BAD area that really needs a cut.. £21 a week just to go around City of Stirling, that is shocking, and has been for years... and people wonder why bus travel within Stirling is dire..... Just Scrap Zone A, C and D, Revise B to £12 and have a new Forth Valley Ticket covering Falkirk ticket Plus Zone A, B, C for £20 ?

Weemidi135 · 15 Nov 2019

With first new zone day ticket they only have 30P on LCB so for 30P more that let’s you travel on the trams *except the airport and use any buses expect airline to go anywhere in Edinburgh

overthewater · 15 Nov 2019

Weemidi135 said:
With first new zone day ticket they only have 30P on LCB so for 30P more that let’s you travel on the trams *except the airport and use any buses expect airline to go anywhere in Edinburgh

Its the Weeklys which are the real reason behide this change. If it was then First would have just brought back the £5 return fare. FYI First current Day return is £7.20.

LCB is only useful if your traveling around Edinburgh, Its still up for debate how many bus passengers there are for this.. Traffic down North Edinburgh - Maybury is awful so many are still using their cars.

Bluebirdscot66 · 16 Nov 2019

With Lothian doing the Christmas x38s , Being announced before the service starts mind you , did first do this before on a tendered service and not bid for it , thereby leading to Lothian Country starting x38 and getting the tender .or has a handshake nod n a wink being going on

Siemens Trains · 16 Nov 2019

Bluebirdscot66 said:
With Lothian doing the Christmas x38s , Being announced before the service starts mind you , did first do this before on a tendered service and not bid for it , thereby leading to Lothian Country starting x38 and getting the tender .or has a handshake nod n a wink being going on

Probably the latter, although we'll never know what agreements were made behind the scenes. Councils often need to receive more than one bid so that things appear competitive, but a reluctant operator could submit a 'dummy' at very high cost. Christmas and New Year shifts are hardly the most popular amongst a workforce and must be difficult to organise. I can't imagine bus companies are falling over themselves to bid for the contracts. When First were lumbered with the C38 it had to run from Livingston rather than Larbert, adding to the complexity and expense.

cnjb8 · 16 Nov 2019

Lothian is owned by councils. Are these councils just in Edinburgh or are some of them in West Lothian or East Lothian (Lothian Country and ECB)?

CM · 16 Nov 2019

cnjb8 said:
Lothian is owned by councils. Are these councils just in Edinburgh or are some of them in West Lothian or East Lothian (Lothian Country and ECB)?

Edinburgh City Council
West Lothian Council
Mid Lothian Council
East Lothian Council

All have shares to some degree in the company. No doubt someone will be along to dish out all the precise percentages etc etc.

90019 · 16 Nov 2019

Colin M said:
Edinburgh City Council
West Lothian Council
Mid Lothian Council
East Lothian Council

91%
5%
3%
1%

Roughly.

TheEastCoaster · 16 Nov 2019

90019 said:
91%
5%
3%
1%

Roughly.

I know the 1% is West Lothian Council but I assumed it was only because of the 109, and now that the N28 replaced that and Lothian have 10 services within West Lothian (not counting the 43) I’m surprised the percentage isn’t higher

Siemens Trains · 16 Nov 2019

TheEastCoaster said:
I know the 1% is West Lothian Council but I assumed it was only because of the 109, and now that the N28 replaced that and Lothian have 10 services within West Lothian (not counting the 43) I’m surprised the percentage isn’t higher

I could be wrong but I didn't think present 'network share' was relevant to 'financial share' holdings. I thought it was just a convenient way of dividing the shares four ways when Lothian Region Council was split back in the 1990s and they wouldn't remain proportional indefinitely. Most companies seek to deliver dividends to their shareholders, not services.

CM · 16 Nov 2019

Siemens Trains said:
I could be wrong but I didn't think present 'network share' was relevant to 'financial share' holdings. I thought it was just a convenient way of dividing the shares four ways when Lothian Region Council was split back in the 1990s and they wouldn't remain proportional indefinitely. Most companies seek to deliver dividends to their shareholders, not services.

Pretty certain that Lothian does pay a dividend to their "shareholders" (ie: the councils).

DunsBus · 16 Nov 2019

Siemens Trains said:
I could be wrong but I didn't think present 'network share' was relevant to 'financial share' holdings. I thought it was just a convenient way of dividing the shares four ways when Lothian Region Council was split back in the 1990s and they wouldn't remain proportional indefinitely. Most companies seek to deliver dividends to their shareholders, not services.

Correct, the share allocations in LB date back to the split of Lothian Regional Council in 1996. They were based on the mileage LRT operated in the successor council areas and were split as follows - CEC 91%, Midlothian 5.5%, East Lothian 3.1% and West Lothian 0.4%. The 109 was the reason for West Lothian's token share.

156478 · 16 Nov 2019

overthewater said:
The Zone tickets have been a complete an utter mess. FSE has been trying to sort it out even since it come in 15 years ago. Back then it was cheap not now since all the price increases have taken place. There were plans for a big shack up, however the changes were to radical, and were overruled, hence the new falkirk ticket and other changes.

Linlithgow for whatever reason was left behide while these changes took place. Stirling is another BAD area that really needs a cut.. £21 a week just to go around City of Stirling, that is shocking, and has been for years... and people wonder why bus travel within Stirling is dire..... Just Scrap Zone A, C and D, Revise B to £12 and have a new Forth Valley Ticket covering Falkirk ticket Plus Zone A, B, C for £20 ?

I remember the glory days when a 3 to 5 FirstDay ticket was £4.75. Go anywhere and do anything. Supposed to be valid on First Glasgow services, shame that no one told any of the First Glasgow drivers who would see one and look at it like you had handed them a blank piece of paper.

CM · 16 Nov 2019

156478 said:
I remember the glory days when a 3 to 5 FirstDay ticket was £4.75. Go anywhere and do anything. Supposed to be valid on First Glasgow services, shame that no one told any of the First Glasgow drivers who would see one and look at it like you had handed them a blank piece of paper.

That ticket was superb, there wasn't much that could match buying one of those tickets in Buchanan and heading to Balfron on one of their Metrobuses, then continuing to Stirling on either another Metrobus or one of the Mercedes O405s.

Siemens Trains · 16 Nov 2019

Colin M said:
Pretty certain that Lothian does pay a dividend to their "shareholders" (ie: the councils).

Yes, but my understanding is that dividend payments are in proportion to service patterns when Lothian Region was dissolved. Subsequent changes to the network share across council areas don't come into the equation.

156478 · 16 Nov 2019

Colin M said:
That ticket was superb, there wasn't much that could match buying one of those tickets in Buchanan and heading to Balfron on one of their Metrobuses, then continuing to Stirling on either another Metrobus or one of the Mercedes O405s.

Nostalgia is a funny thing.

X15/15A on whatever Livingston wanted to throw out- could have been a Barbie Alexander Royale Volvo Olympian, Scania OmniDekka, ex-National Express Dennis Javelin or one of the scarce Leyland Lions from Glasgow to Livingston and then hope for one of the ex-Glasgow L-Reg Leyland Olympians on the 12 or 16 to Edinburgh and laugh as it tries to reach 40mph at Ingliston and the engine red hot and close to overheating.

Lunch and then a 38 to Falkirk which always involved some kind of Scania going into and out of Bridgend for no good reason, into Falkirk Bus Station/hell hole

Then a 27 from Falkirk to Glasgow via Larbert that was always a Barbie Royale and always late because someone at the time thought that 4 or 5 minute turnrounds on a route that is tightly timed and has a long detour via Larbert, a dogleg section of route via Banton and passes through Camelon, Larbert, Kirky and Bishopbriggs and along the Springburn Expressway with all the lights at Costco/Tesco is great for punctuality!

Or the X37-slightly more reliable with better layovers, half the time buses could'nt run to High Bonnybridge as the bridge was always shut, picking up half the population of Cumernauld Village, struggling to get into the bus stops at Cumbernauld Town Centre due to Canavans and Coakley buses littered everywhere and then the glamourous tour of Greenfaulds and Condorrat, then Mollinsburn and Muirhead and a final blast on the motorway into Glasgow. First Edinburgh would provide quite decent buses, but Cumbernauld would throw out the clapped out Tigers, the suffocating Scanias - SS5 TIB 8513 for instance- no opening windows so when it was sunny it was like a greenhouse and when it was raining it became very musty inside- at least it had high back seats.

£4.75. You don't get much for that these days, that's for sure.

West Lothian buses

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