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Gatwick Airport Station Access via Private Property

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Jona26

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20191114_192435.jpg

The above image shows a sign restricting access to Gatwick Airport to certain categories of people - it doesn't include people needing to exit or enter the railway station that don't have legitimate business at the airport itself.

Technically if these bylaws were enforced how would rail users not included in the categories above be able to enter or exit the station?

I'm aware an entrance/exit was installed on Platform 7 a few months back but I've never seen it open and would need to be for ticket holders only. Also it wouldn't be any use for Oyster or contactless users as there are no pads located there.

I think it may have been installed in readiness for the BML blockades for easier access to car parks/drop offs.

Thoughts?
 
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alistairlees

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I've been to Gatwick purely for business meetings (convenient middle point) so, according to this sign, was breaking a byelaw. Won't do it again!;)
 

Surreytraveller

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Gatwick Airport is the nearest station to the local Crematorium. There's also an industrial estate nearby that people need to get to work at. There's the cycle route that people need access to.
 

philthetube

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Also public footpaths across the airport, as you cannot continue across the runways there are not many options.
 

Chris Butler

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I think the signs are (probably deliberately) confusing. In the byelaws I can't see anything about restricting access in the way suggested in the top sign. I think the two signs are separate notices.

I guess that (absent any footpath or other public rights of way) any station on private land is at the mercy of the land owner for access. Redcar British Steel was the classic example. However , unless I missed something in the bye laws, ignoring the top sign is a civil, not a criminal, matter.
 

WideRanger

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I suspect that this is less about actually restricting access and more about 1) ensuring that rights of access don't become established, and 2) that they have a way of enforcing preventing people they don't want on site from remaining on site.
 

option

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I suspect that this is less about actually restricting access and more about 1) ensuring that rights of access don't become established, and 2) that they have a way of enforcing preventing people they don't want on site from remaining on site.

Which doesn't require bylaws.
All a private landowner has to do is close off access one day a year. Cadbury's do it with a private road, a chain goes across each end for Christmas Day.
 

Puppetfinger

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I wouldn't worry about this too much.

I believe this is a standard by law at all UK airports, essentially giving the Police the power to remove people immediately from the airport if they are not there for a valid reason, more so really to prevent homeless etc from sleeping / taking shelter in the terminal building areas. I've seen on those airport TV documentaries the Police going round during the night questioning and removing people who are just hanging around or trying to sleep in the terminal with no good reason.

I've known a few people who work local to Gatwick who have often gone into the airport to buy lunch from one of the food outlets before security, and never had issues.
 

Bletchleyite

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I've known a few people who work local to Gatwick who have often gone into the airport to buy lunch from one of the food outlets before security, and never had issues.

I remember years ago when I was less well travelled playing around in Greater Manchester on a Day Ranger and being quite put out by seeing those notices in the airport when all I wanted to do was pop in and use the Burger King, but nobody said anything then, nor would they now.

There are however countries where they check your boarding pass at the airport door, e.g. India.
 

Jona26

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Out of interest perhaps a FOI request to Network Rail as the infrastructure owner may be in order to enquire about access arrangements and a general enquiry to Gatwick Airport.

Am I right in thinking that GTR as the station operator and Gatwick Airport, both as private companies, aren't subject to FOI requests?
 

87 027

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There are however countries where they check your boarding pass at the airport door, e.g. India.

Indeed so, and if you say you haven’t checked in yet then I have seen them cross check against a printout of the passenger list provided by the airlines
 

30907

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I remember years ago when I was less well travelled playing around in Greater Manchester on a Day Ranger and being quite put out by seeing those notices in the airport when all I wanted to do was pop in and use the Burger King, but nobody said anything then, nor would they now.

There are however countries where they check your boarding pass at the airport door, e.g. India.
Not to mention London City Airport, which is slightly nearer home :)
 

urbophile

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My local station, Cressington in Liverpool, is situated within a private residential park to which the general public don't have right of access (although there is no way of preventing this and no-one ever seems to try.) However I believe that when the station was built - over 150 years ago- there was an exception written into the bylaws to allow general access to all station users. I don't know whether Gatwick Airport station is covered by a similar exception but common sense suggests it should be.
 

Chris Butler

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My local station, Cressington in Liverpool, is situated within a private residential park to which the general public don't have right of access (although there is no way of preventing this and no-one ever seems to try.) However I believe that when the station was built - over 150 years ago- there was an exception written into the bylaws to allow general access to all station users. I don't know whether Gatwick Airport station is covered by a similar exception but common sense suggests it should be.

Cressington is between two roads which, whether they are privately owned or not, seem to be highways. What is it that you are thinking prevents public access ?
 

Llanigraham

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Cressington is between two roads which, whether they are privately owned or not, seem to be highways. What is it that you are thinking prevents public access ?

Looking at maps I am quite sure that Knowsley Rd and Salisbury Rd are both open to all. but the road between the 2, on which the station is situated, could well be "private". Knowing the history of the area it could well have been a coach road entrance for the elite of Knowsley. The correct and legal definition is a "Permissive Path". There is an example given above of a "road" owned by Cadbury's.
 

CHAPS2034

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Not to mention London City Airport, which is slightly nearer home :)

I thought anyone could access the check in hall at LCY - certainly was the case not so long ago.

You can't get any further though without a boarding card
 

Chris Butler

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Looking at maps I am quite sure that Knowsley Rd and Salisbury Rd are both open to all. but the road between the 2, on which the station is situated, could well be "private". Knowing the history of the area it could well have been a coach road entrance for the elite of Knowsley. The correct and legal definition is a "Permissive Path". There is an example given above of a "road" owned by Cadbury's.

Yes, I own a permissive path, but I doubt very much that access road is one. I am pretty sure it will be an unadopted private road with full public access. I think Cressington was probably a red herring both because there is public access and also because I am doubtful that any byelaw is involved.
 
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Real headcode 3S09 but can’t see what’s on it yet.

Cressington is between two roads which, whether they are privately owned or not, seem to be highways. What is it that you are thinking prevents public access ?

Looking at maps I am quite sure that Knowsley Rd and Salisbury Rd are both open to all. but the road between the 2, on which the station is situated, could well be "private". Knowing the history of the area it could well have been a coach road entrance for the elite of Knowsley. The correct and legal definition is a "Permissive Path". There is an example given above of a "road" owned by Cadbury's.

If you stand, or look on google maps at the start of Salisbury road you will in fact see the access "problem"
It indeed is and always has been only accessible with permission, everything after Cressington park gates is on private property and you can pass the gates to access a house or the station, you cant pass the gates with intention to loiter, go begging etc etc etc.
There is a by law that protects the residents from the layabouts from round about who would otherwise swamp the area blah blah blah.
 

30907

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I thought anyone could access the check in hall at LCY - certainly was the case not so long ago.

You can't get any further though without a boarding card
June this year, we were stopped at the entrance and asked for ID or boarding cards, I can't remember which. I was surprised too!
 

Dave W

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June this year, we were stopped at the entrance and asked for ID or boarding cards, I can't remember which. I was surprised too!

Possibly in response to the Extinction Rebellion protest threat, maybe? Checks at the door wasn’t the case when I used LCY at the back end of last year.
 

benbristow

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Does this apply to other stations like Prestwick Airport? I’ve been there just to visit some colleagues in an office nearby (mind you
I did plop into the terminal for a tinkle!)
 

mirodo

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Possibly in response to the Extinction Rebellion protest threat, maybe? Checks at the door wasn’t the case when I used LCY at the back end of last year.

Nor when I flew from there in September this year.
 

Chris Butler

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If you stand, or look on google maps at the start of Salisbury road you will in fact see the access "problem"
It indeed is and always has been only accessible with permission, everything after Cressington park gates is on private property and you can pass the gates to access a house or the station, you cant pass the gates with intention to loiter, go begging etc etc etc.
There is a by law that protects the residents from the layabouts from round about who would otherwise swamp the area blah blah blah.

I only see a parking notice on Goigle Street View. Salisbury Rd. looks like the vast majority of private roads in the UK... privately owned, but with full public right of way.

What bye-law do you think applies ? I'm doubtful that there are any. I'm not sure why Parliament would approve any.
 
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I only see a parking notice on Goigle Street View. Salisbury Rd. looks like the vast majority of private roads in the UK... privately owned, but with full public right of way.

What bye-law do you think applies ? I'm doubtful that there are any. I'm not sure why Parliament would approve any.

If you are really interested go an find out! You expect me to provide you with some raft of evidence to support any position?
Its on a plaque on the street announcing your right of access as a none resident of the estate. The building to the right of the entrance gate used to be the gate keepers lodge house. It was made to house the super wealthy of Liverpool, merchants, ship and business owners etc.

The only right of way is to access the station, you do not have for instance a right of way to access the estate in order to walk along the promenade at the end of the road...
The newspaper delivery boy has premission by the person who orders their news papers to be delivered to enter the estate and deliver it. Otherwise it strickly speaking be trespassing.
It is a private estate, there are bylaws covering it, go and find them if you are interested they are held by the local council etc though each resident also has a copy
 

Chris Butler

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If you are really interested go an find out!

What you said was so intriguing that I did. Here is the website for the park: https://cressingtonpark.org/.

It mentions the covenant that applies in the park, but no bye-laws. Covenants impose obligations on the owners, not the public.

It also confirms what I thought, namely that the roads are unadopted roads. In that case there is unrestricted access to the roads for the public. The site mentions no restriction on access other than that people enter at their own risk.

That's all I can find. If you've got any other references that I can follow-up, that would be useful. Otherwise it looks like the roads are no different to thousands of other privately owned roads in England.
 

DarloRich

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I wouldn't worry about this too much.

I believe this is a standard by law at all UK airports, essentially giving the Police the power to remove people immediately from the airport if they are not there for a valid reason, more so really to prevent homeless etc from sleeping / taking shelter in the terminal building areas. I've seen on those airport TV documentaries the Police going round during the night questioning and removing people who are just hanging around or trying to sleep in the terminal with no good reason.

I've known a few people who work local to Gatwick who have often gone into the airport to buy lunch from one of the food outlets before security, and never had issues.

this is the correct answer. it isnt worth getting all het up about.
 

Llanigraham

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Is the parking restriction not a bye-law then?

From the link provided by Chris Butler:
https://cressingtonpark.org/living-in-the-park/roads-and-parking/
Parking and Permits
The park operates a parking permit system which is managed by a private company. If your house is situated north of Grosvenor Road you will need a resident’s and/or a visitor’s permit to park on the road without being issued with a penalty.

For details on regulations and penalties, please see Parking Regulations December 2017 (PDF)

For permits and more information available to residents please contact the trustees.

Residents are requested to park their cars on their own property if possible, for obvious safety and security reasons.

If vehicles are left outside the property, they must not be parked on the pavement. Also please do not park directly opposite gateways, as this makes access to premises very difficult because of the narrowness of the roads.

So no it is not a Bye-Law, but part of the Deed of Covenant.
There is subtle difference.
 
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