Crossrail opening delayed (opening date not yet known)

Railwaysceptic · 15 Nov 2019

iphone76 said:
I shall find out on the 25th November. Check the Fares dispute section that evening. LOL

I eagerly await your findings! I want to go to Reading in the next few weeks and I too have a Freedom Pass.

RailUK Forums

iphone76 · 15 Nov 2019

Railwaysceptic said:
I eagerly await your findings! I want to go to Reading in the next few weeks and I too have a Freedom Pass.

I do have a very slight advantage so I will be fine.

silverfoxcc · 15 Nov 2019

On Monday i saw a TFL unit depart from Reading about 11.00

JonathanH · 15 Nov 2019

silverfoxcc said:
On Monday i saw a TFL unit depart from Reading about 11.00

That's not unusual - they have been running (empty) to Reading for some time on training / testing runs.

dmncf · 15 Nov 2019

matt_world2004 said:
Royal Oak portal is still under possession and test trains enter via Stratford

I wasn't aware of that. I often pass Crossrail trains on the surface near the portal, but I've never visited to watch them come and go. Do they travel to/from the Royal Oak portal or only travel to/from the west?

matt_world2004 · 15 Nov 2019

dmncf said:
I wasn't aware of that. I often pass Crossrail trains on the surface near the portal, but I've never visited to watch them come and go. Do they travel to/from the Royal Oak portal or only travel to/from the west?

They travel from the east to royal Oak portal /sidingsthey don't go any further west than that. They also are still working on the tracks when test services are not running.

matt_world2004 · 15 Nov 2019

If you do a TfL journey planner for 08:30 am on the 25th November and unselect national rail it shows it as a TfL rail service to reading

That's a bit of an oops when it comes to ticket validity.

Railwaysceptic · 16 Nov 2019

matt_world2004 said:
If you do a TfL journey planner for 08:30 am on the 25th November and unselect national rail it shows it as a TfL rail service to reading View attachment 70455

That's a bit of an oops when it comes to ticket validity.

The other question of course - at least for me - is will the barriers at Reading Station accept a Freedom Pass?

matt_world2004 · 16 Nov 2019

Railwaysceptic said:
The other question of course - at least for me - is will the barriers at Reading Station accept a Freedom Pass?

No even when the freedom pass gets accepted to reading you will need to manually present to gateline staff. I highly recommend you do not try to use your freedom pass on this service. Unless you are confident about arguing for your rights.

There have been cases where GwR staff have penalty fared people using a freedom pass in peak getting off TfL rail, despite them being valid.

Reading the conditions of carriage for rail for London services I believe freedom passes should be valid on this service , and as they haven't updated the conditions of carriage for the expansion west ,Oyster Pay as you go!!! However it depends how much you want to argue the point.

Railwaysceptic · 16 Nov 2019

matt_world2004 said:
No even when the freedom pass gets accepted to reading you will need to manually present to gateline staff. I highly recommend you do not try to use your freedom pass on this service. Unless you are confident about arguing for your rights.

There have been cases where GwR staff have penalty fared people using a freedom pass in peak getting off TfL rail, despite them being valid.

Reading the conditions of carriage for rail for London services I believe freedom passes should be valid on this service , and as they haven't updated the conditions of carriage for the expansion west ,Oyster Pay as you go!!! However it depends how much you want to argue the point.

Thank you. I won't be confident of arguing my case until I'm sure that TfL is an established service to Reading, recognised by all rail staff. This is currently the position at Cheshunt. I can use my Freedom Pass there on TfL trains via Seven Sisters but not on Greater Anglia trains via Tottenham Hale. The staff at Cheshunt know the score and which train I can use.

cactustwirly · 16 Nov 2019

Railwaysceptic said:
Thank you. I won't be confident of arguing my case until I'm sure that TfL is an established service to Reading, recognised by all rail staff. This is currently the position at Cheshunt. I can use my Freedom Pass there on TfL trains via Seven Sisters but not on Greater Anglia trains via Tottenham Hale. The staff at Cheshunt know the score and which train I can use.

I'd be very careful about that, as I don't think it will be valid past West Drayton...

coppercapped · 16 Nov 2019

cactustwirly said:
I'd be very careful about that, as I don't think it will be valid past West Drayton...

In addition the three gate lines at Reading are a long way from Platforms 13 and 14, the most likely ones that Crossrail trains will use. Unless tickets are checked on the platform the gateline staff at their current locations will not have a clue which incoming train was used.

Equally in the other direction once past the gateline the choice of trains to London is up to you...!

I suspect ticket checks on GWR services leaving Reading for London will have to be sharpened up as there are a couple of ungated platforms at Paddington

Railwaysceptic · 16 Nov 2019

cactustwirly said:
I'd be very careful about that, as I don't think it will be valid past West Drayton...

I'm quite sure that when the dust has settled Freedom Passes will be valid on TfL services to Reading just as they are on all other services operated under the aegis of TfL. For example, Epping is way outside London but I can go there. The issue at present is that TfL services to Reading are a "grey area" with nothing yet clearly defined and it's probable that railway staff at stations will be the last to be informed.

matt_world2004 · 16 Nov 2019

cactustwirly said:
I'd be very careful about that, as I don't think it will be valid past West Drayton...

Freedom Passes will be valid on TfL rail to reading, the problem is the service from the 25th November is not a TfL rail service despite using TfL rail staff, TfL Rail rolling stock and advertised on journey planner as a TfL rail service.

daveshah · 16 Nov 2019

matt_world2004 said:
If you do a TfL journey planner for 08:30 am on the 25th November and unselect national rail it shows it as a TfL rail service to reading View attachment 70455

That's a bit of an oops when it comes to ticket validity.

NRE is showing these services as being TfL rail services, too.

reddragon · 16 Nov 2019

My current understanding is that there will not be any TfL validity to Reading including freedom passes, but there will be to all other inner stations for the exact reasons stated above.

matt_world2004 · 16 Nov 2019

reddragon said:
My current understanding is that there will not be any TfL validity to Reading including freedom passes, but there will be to all other inner stations for the exact reasons stated above.

TfL Press release said:
ln line with TfL's wider policies, children under 11 who are accompanied by an adult, as well as customers who are eligible for the Freedom Pass, will be able to travel for free to Reading on the new TfL service.

https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/p...-operate-services-to-reading-from-15-december

reddragon · 16 Nov 2019

matt_world2004 said:
https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/p...-operate-services-to-reading-from-15-december

Now that will be fun in Reading!

matt_world2004 · 16 Nov 2019

reddragon said:
Now that will be fun in Reading!

There's a similar situation at Clapham junction currently with staff passes they have to be manually presented but gateline staff can't see where you have come from.

richardjeeves · 16 Nov 2019

I might need to test my TfL staff pass. I can see fun with that as well.

bluegoblin7 · 16 Nov 2019

matt_world2004 said:
There's a similar situation at Clapham junction currently with staff passes they have to be manually presented but gateline staff can't see where you have come from.

Staff passes definitely work all gatelines at Clapham Junction.

matt_world2004 · 16 Nov 2019

matt_world2004 said:
There's a similar situation at Clapham junction currently with staff passes they have to be manually presented but gateline staff can't see where you have come from.

They didn't used certainly when I used it in 2017 it didn't work

Meerkat · 17 Nov 2019

So will contactless act like Oyster up to West Drayton (Daily Limits etc) then add on a West Drayton to Reading fare?

cactustwirly · 17 Nov 2019

Meerkat said:
So will contactless act like Oyster up to West Drayton (Daily Limits etc) then add on a West Drayton to Reading fare?

I'm pretty sure you'll just be charged for the he appropriate Paddington to Reading fare.

matt_world2004 · 17 Nov 2019

Meerkat said:
So will contactless act like Oyster up to West Drayton (Daily Limits etc) then add on a West Drayton to Reading fare?

There will be a cap for Reading to Paddington if you reach the daily cap for zone 1-6 you will be charged a zone 6- Reading fare.

Railwaysceptic · 17 Nov 2019

matt_world2004 said:
https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/p...-operate-services-to-reading-from-15-december

. . . and for me the salient passage is: However, in line with TfL's wider policies, children under 11 who are accompanied by an adult, as well as customers who are eligible for the Freedom Pass, will be able to travel for free to Reading on the new TfL service.

And less than a month away!

kevin_roche · 20 Nov 2019

There is a nice summary of the status of the Crossrail Signalling software in the December issue of Future Rail at:
https://rail.nridigital.com/future_...software_delays_on_london_s_crossrail_project

London’s Crossrail project has been beset by delays, the latest resulting from communications faults between the new Bombardier trains and the three signalling systems they will need to interact with. Julian Turner takes a look at the £17.6bn project and how Crossrail intends to fix its software bugs.

“The train software needs to be given a chance to mature,” Crossrail Ltd CEO Mark Wild told the Financial Times. “There are bugs on the Siemens system we are running and we need to get them out. We need to whizz around the track hundreds of times to do that.”

Unfortunately, delays in completing train and signalling software mean there are only four class 345 trains being tested on Crossrail’s central section. The issue is that the 70-strong fleet of 200m-long Bombardier trains ordered by TfL have to be integrated with three different signalling systems.

The section of the Elizabeth line between Paddington and Heathrow uses the European Train Control System (ECTS), the core signalling and train control component of ERTMS, the European Rail Traffic Management System. ETCS continuously calculates a safe maximum speed for each train, with cab signalling for the driver and on-board systems that take control if the permissible speed is exceeded.

West of Heathrow and east of Stratford, the trains use an automatic warning system, combined with a train protection and warning system (TPWS). A standard TPWS consists of an on-track transmitter adjacent to a signal – any train that passes it will automatically have its emergency brake activated.

Finally, the central section uses Siemens’ proprietary communications-based train control (CBTC) system, which makes use of the telecommunications between the train and track equipment in order to manage rail traffic and control infrastructure.

Creating interfaces that allow the Bombardier trains to switch from the legacy signalling systems to the newer ones is key to getting the testing back on track and timely delivery of the Elizabeth line.

A letter from Mark Wild to Florence Eshalomi, the Chair of the London Assembly Transport Committee says:

Version PD+10 of the train and signalling software was installed for testing in the central section in early October as planned and valuable reliability and functionality testing continues while the next software iteration is developed by Siemens. Each new version of the software increases functionality and the range of Dynamic Testing that can be undertaken. The software version PD+11 is still anticipated to be the version used for the start of Trial Running however, the uplift in functionality to PD+11 is significant. Development of PD+12 is now well underway minimise any potential impact on the schedule should it be required for Trial Running.

From that letter and a recent article in London Reconnections I get the impression that there are multiple issues with the CBTC software itself despite its use in other metro systems around the world. The transition from one system to another that will be needed at each end of the central section and on the branch to Heathrow is another new issue entirely, which has yet to be proven.

One of the CBTC signalling requirements which goes beyond what is usually found is detailed on page 9 in the Crossrail Central Operating Section Timetable Planning Rules.

No more than two trains may be permitted to occupy a ventilation section at any time. This is enforced by the signalling system.

It looks to me like Trial Running might well be delayed by the signalling software even if the stations at Bond Street and Whitechapel are complete enough to support it.

Railwaysceptic · 18 Dec 2019

I used my Freedom Pass to Reading today on a TfL train, the first time I've ever travelled so far west on the relief lines. Between Reading and Maidenhead the trains move very briskly. The gates at Reading do not yet accept Freedom Passes but the gate staff have obviously been informed that they are now valid on TfL trains.

cactustwirly · 18 Dec 2019

Railwaysceptic said:
I used my Freedom Pass to Reading today on a TfL train, the first time I've ever travelled so far west on the relief lines. Between Reading and Maidenhead the trains move very briskly. The gates at Reading do not yet accept Freedom Passes but the gate staff have obviously been informed that they are now valid on TfL trains.

Yeah they do, the linespeed is 90mph on the reliefs, plus they can reach that speed with the fast acceleration and largeish gaps between stations
The question is, how numb was your arse after an hour on those seats?

matt_world2004 · 18 Dec 2019

cactustwirly said:
Yeah they do, the linespeed is 90mph on the reliefs.
The question is, how numb was your arse after an hour on those seats?

Probably cushioned by the £20 note remaining in his back pocket rather than on a train ticket

Crossrail opening delayed (opening date not yet known)

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