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Passenger fined after having ‘one foot’ in first class.

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SteveM70

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The Daily Mail seem to like anything that turns people against each other
 

Kite159

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It's clear there need to be more rules to balance passengers rights versus company rights to make cash. There is a peverse incentive for TOCs that offer 1st class to do nothing (or worse) for overcrowded Standard passengers, knowing that it will drive 1st sales.

Certainly, having a 1st class compartment on a train so crowded people can't even move should be unlawful.

A rule that says once you reach >25% standing passengers 1st must be declassified for the whole remaining route would be sensible. Following that, trains which are consistently overcrowded should be barred from 1st class tickets sales entirely.

This would mean there would be an incentive for TOCs to ensure a reasonable level of service is provided for all.

How would you define 25% standing, as quite often you can get standing in the coaches nearest the entrance but walk to the front of the train and it can have spare seats because some people can't be bothered walking or they board within the last minute.
 

SouthStand

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Just another example of why the unfathomable legal powers the railway seems to possess should be removed :rolleyes:
 

Bantamzen

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Genuine story. Reported by several local papers in Essex, no doubt Daily Mail picked it up from there.

Been an atrocious couple of weeks on the GEML for punctuality and disruption. To target someone for this in light of the current state of the service really is embarrassing.

The trouble is that it is all third party reporting, we don't actually know exactly what happened, what was said, just what other commuters overheard. Its way too easy these days for stories to roll completely our of proportion, and this might be one example.
 

packermac

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Without knowing the type of stock involved, but does First Class only start when you go through the doors or would it include the vestibule area, ie the whole coach? I personally would have thought the vestibules as not being part of First Class, but I may be wrong in that it appears.
On the same logic if First was full would it be acceptable to move to standard (somewhere you did not have a ticket for) even though you would have paid more?
 

Ianigsy

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The imprecise language doesn't help - we still don't know whether the "foot" is the unit of measurement or the thing at the end of your leg. It makes a difference.
 

Taunton

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The imprecise language doesn't help - we still don't know whether the "foot" is the unit of measurement or the thing at the end of your leg. It makes a difference.
Seeing as a foot (human) is commonly about a foot (measurement), however does it make a difference?
 

LAX54

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Without knowing the type of stock involved, but does First Class only start when you go through the doors or would it include the vestibule area, ie the whole coach? I personally would have thought the vestibules as not being part of First Class, but I may be wrong in that it appears.
On the same logic if First was full would it be acceptable to move to standard (somewhere you did not have a ticket for) even though you would have paid more?

I read it was the 1835 departure, which is an 8 car 321.
 

SteveM70

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Seeing as a foot (human) is commonly about a foot (measurement), however does it make a difference?

because standing a foot inside first class means the punter’s entirely in first class; with one foot in first class it doesn’t
 

iphone76

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Without knowing the type of stock involved, but does First Class only start when you go through the doors or would it include the vestibule area, ie the whole coach? I personally would have thought the vestibules as not being part of First Class, but I may be wrong in that it appears.
On the same logic if First was full would it be acceptable to move to standard (somewhere you did not have a ticket for) even though you would have paid more?

The vestibule area is not First Class on the GA 321s.
 

2L70

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The Daily Mail seem to like anything that turns people against each other

And that is often why it gets posted up here. To stir things up.

As mentioned said person was in 1st class where there was standard seating available.

But it’s Essex so no doubt there were verbal threats dished out...
 

AM9

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And that is often why it gets posted up here. To stir things up.

As mentioned said person was in 1st class where there was standard seating available.

But it’s Essex so no doubt there were verbal threats dished out...
It's bizarre how many (including DM readers) can scream 'fake news' about things that are independently verified yet suck up half truths in badly written reports like this.
 

packermac

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On a slightly similar situation I found it strange that on a day when SWR were screwed up and passengers were being advised at Southampton Central to use XC to Brockenhurst and Bournemouth, rather than speed up the boarding process there were two XC staff (presumably the TM was one stopping people boarding via the First Class door and them moving into to Standard to find a seat. Do not know why they could not just block the sliding door into First to stop people going in there. Plus of course they had no idea if anybody they were stopping actually had a First Class ticket anyway.
 

stut

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It's bizarre how many (including DM readers) can scream 'fake news' about things that are independently verified yet suck up half truths in badly written reports like this.

Confirmation bias isn't hard to come by. I'll bet most people can find some in themselves if they're being really honest.
 

al78

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It's bizarre how many (including DM readers) can scream 'fake news' about things that are independently verified yet suck up half truths in badly written reports like this.

People choose to believe things which align with their world view (i.e. sound good or right), and oppose anything that contradicts it. This requires less mental strain than questioning whether your beliefs and opinions should be thrown away because they conflict with reality.

The Daily Mail seems to recycle articles designed to cause conflict and hatred. If it is not the railway, it will be cyclists, immigrants, benefit claimants, climate change denial, or the poor hard done by motorist.
 

Rich McLean

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On a slightly similar situation I found it strange that on a day when SWR were screwed up and passengers were being advised at Southampton Central to use XC to Brockenhurst and Bournemouth, rather than speed up the boarding process there were two XC staff (presumably the TM was one stopping people boarding via the First Class door and them moving into to Standard to find a seat. Do not know why they could not just block the sliding door into First to stop people going in there. Plus of course they had no idea if anybody they were stopping actually had a First Class ticket anyway.

This is done when the train is packed to avoid non 1st class ticket holders being unable to stand in Standard class due to no room, especially if Revenue Protection are in the area. Passengers with standard tickets who can't board in Standard class when its crush loaded then have to wait for the next train.

I agree 1st class should be declassified at that point, but that rarely happens as they would then have to compenstate 1st class ticket holders.
 

Mogz

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I’ve been asked to move from standing in a first class vestibule on a packed Cross Country Voyager on many occasions.

Having to do so just made the journey even less comfortable for those already packed in.

A vestibule, that is, not the saloon itself.
 

kristiang85

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I’ve been asked to move from standing in a first class vestibule on a packed Cross Country Voyager on many occasions.

Having to do so just made the journey even less comfortable for those already packed in.

A vestibule, that is, not the saloon itself.

I've seen this happen on CC too - the last time I think there were about five people sitting in first, whilst the corridor was so rammed even standing people were packed together. It was in the summer too so it was pretty grim for those stuck in the vestibule (luckily I was only going one stop myself). One man got pretty shirty with the guard, basically asking 'where do you expect us to go then?', and it was left after that.
 

Diplodicus

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Whenever I read an account of something which I have direct, first-hand experience, the newspaper always make significant errors. And yet...

such is their power that when I read about something of which I don't have first-hand experience, my default position is to start of assuming it is correct, true, or at least, "no smoke without fire". Then I give myself a good slap and ut the kettle on.

Do you really think an RPI is going to bugger up his own day in such a way. No? Me neither.
 

AM9

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Whenever I read an account of something which I have direct, first-hand experience, the newspaper always make significant errors. And yet...

such is their power that when I read about something of which I don't have first-hand experience, my default position is to start of assuming it is correct, true, or at least, "no smoke without fire". Then I give myself a good slap and ut the kettle on. ...
It's true though,- there is a fire, - the newspaper proprietor's socio-political agenda.
 
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