Out of 10 consecutive Northern trains through Hartlepool this afternoon, 7 were cancelled and the service was not restored 'till about 6:30pm, after which all services seem to have run.
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Northern - is the bad PR unfair?
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How about this tale of woe? Times shown are departure times from Darlington towards Middlesbrough/Saltburn:
1518 ran ok
1540 cancelled throughout
1618 cancelled throughout
1640 cancelled between Darlington and Middlesbrough, ran between Middlesbrough and Saltburn
1718 cancelled throughout
1740 ran ok
1818 ran ok
1840 cancelled throughout
1918 cancelled between Darlington and Middlesbrough, ran between Middlesbrough and Saltburn
1940 cancelled throughout
2018 ran ok
2040 ran ok
2140 ran ok
2239 cancelled
Therefore between 1540 and 1940 seven out of nine Darlington - Middlesbrough trains didn't run.
Mainly driver shortages but also a problem with 142093.
realaledrinker
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Opportunity today to try out a 195 so arrived at Helsby to get the 1835 Leeds train to Vic. Cancelled at short notice as incoming service 40 mins late and presumably turned at Warrington.
Waiting at Oxford Road just now and the preceding 2312 to Lime Street was shown as on time, then -1, -2, delayed then cancelled. Everybody over the footbridge to leg it to the all stations stopper only to see the actual 2312 trundle through as a rammed 2 car 195.
My TfW 2314 last train to Chester is similarly crush loaded.
Car and Metrolink next time. Rubbish service.
Waiting at Oxford Road just now and the preceding 2312 to Lime Street was shown as on time, then -1, -2, delayed then cancelled. Everybody over the footbridge to leg it to the all stations stopper only to see the actual 2312 trundle through as a rammed 2 car 195.
My TfW 2314 last train to Chester is similarly crush loaded.
Car and Metrolink next time. Rubbish service.
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Surely this is as a result of the broken rail on the ECML which curtailed my trip to Newcastle for a meeting?
Had many other issues in the North East last night than just Northern. TPE were also cancelling trains, LNER were running up to half an hour late at Darlington, and XC were also cutting journeys short (Cancelled 1E56 at Derby then ran it as ECS through to Newcastle).
Northern are usually the TOC to get a slating for poor service, not just yesterday but as soon as anything is cancelled or delayed, yet TPE, XC and LNER are delayed on an almost daily basis in the North East while Northern generally run to time.
marty56110
Member
Therefore between 1540 and 1940 seven out of nine Darlington - Middlesbrough trains didn't run.
Mainly driver shortages but also a problem with 142093.[/QUOTE]
I think the issue with 142093 was lies and was train crew shortage, I travelled on it 3 times yesterday between 8am and 4pm and it seemed fine to me.
Mainly driver shortages but also a problem with 142093.[/QUOTE]
I think the issue with 142093 was lies and was train crew shortage, I travelled on it 3 times yesterday between 8am and 4pm and it seemed fine to me.
Was probably 195 001 or 002 which I noticed last week had started appearing on the Liverpool - Man Airport services instead of the 3 carriage 195/1's. They know full well that 2 carriages isn't enough, especially during rush hour or on one of the last trains back from Manchester to Liverpool on a Friday or Saturday evening, but they still go ahead with the randon unit generator.
Coincidentally, last November I had been to a concert in Manchester on a Friday night and went to catch the 23.12 from Man Oxford Rd back to Liverpool. Like your experience it was 1 min late, then 2, then 5, then 10...
When it eventually turned up it was a 2 carriage Pacer which was absolutely rammed! Cue, everyone legs over to get the all stations stopper, which was also a 2 carriage Pacer! I had no choice but to get on it, along with dozens of other people, most of whom were blind drunk. That was one of the worst train journeys I have ever been on!
I'm going to another concert on a Friday night in Manchester next April. I've booked a room in a hotel to avoid having to get whatever sardine can Northern put on the last train home!
Why? None of those trains would travel on the ECML apart from through Newcastle itself. Where was the broken rail?
You an expert on 142s and what would cause failures then? It seems brave to assume that you'd know whether or not a it's likely that a train would fail or not.
Why did they order 120 seat 2 car trains. They are useless in the major conurbations at almost any time of the day or night.
I think I said this earlier on in this thread or on another thread, but I'll say it again:
A few weeks ago I got a 195/1 on the Liverpool to Man Airport service. I actually got on at Liverpool South Parkway and it was already standing room only. At Warrington Central even more people managed to squeeze on.
This was a Saturday afternoon and proved that 3 carriages isn't enough!
northernchris
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Prior to the 195s being introduced the Liverpool - Manchester Airport was mostly doubled up units, so even a 3 car 195 has a reduction in seats without it being regularly shortformed down to 2 carriages. My concern is that once all 195s are in use there won't be much of an increase in capacity, certainly not even to make a dent in some of the most overcrowded services
Yes, they where. If you were lucky it would be 2 x 156's. Even a 156 + 150 was sufficient.
But sometimes it would be 2 x Pacers, or even worse, like I mentioned in my previous post when I attempted to get the 23.12 from Oxford Road which originated at Man Airport, it was 1 x Pacer!
Imagine arriving back at Man Airport after a long haul flight, or even a short haul flight, and you had to complete your journey back to Warrington or Liverpool on a Pacer, or even a 2 carriage 195. At least you could sit on your suitcase!
I forgot to mention, when I attempted to get that train there was someone in a wheelchair who was also planning to board that train.
God knows how he got home!
marty56110
Member
I was on 142093 when it was cancelled at Darlington and on approaching Darlington the conductor announced he has been informed by Northern Control the train was been cancelled at Darlington. The departure boards said it was cancelled due to a train fault, however if the conductor didn’t know about it and it was sent back out an hour or so later I would suggest the reason was no crew to take it forward, nothing to do with the unit.
Of course, but its only going to get worse the next few weeks.
Over here in Beverley we’ve gone from 1 Scarborough service every 90 minutes to 1 every hour. The hourly Bridlington to Sheffield service is now operated by 3 car 170s instead of 2 car 158s - a definite improvement in quality and capacity. The 155s are unfortunately a downgrade on the 158s, but are not inappropriate. Services run earlier and later. Further improvements due in December such as the Sheffield service going all the way to Scarborough rather than stopping at Bridlington and better connections with the Scarborough to Liverpool TPE at Seamer. The Bridlington service will go through to York. There’ll be the new Halifax service from Hull starting as well.
The staff are... variable, but there are some very good ones.
Also, why order 4 car EMUs for commuter flows with less seating capacity & an internal layout more suitable to regional services ie tables!?
Kingspanner
Member
Next June on a Saturday night The Killers are playing at the Riverside Stadium, Middlesbrough. I predict that Northern will be totally overwhelmed by this event, even with seven months notice, and despite the obvious potential. I would like nothing more than to use the train for this gig but will definitely be in the car.
They are largely very good but odd ones awful.
What I've seen of good service seems to me to be down to genuine helpfulness from good people, rather than the result of any training or supervision from the company - such has been it's down-to-earth & unscripted nature.
The guards in particular seem generally very good despite the chaotic circumstances they often find themselves in.
The outsourced ticket inspectors on the gates often seem the sort uninterested jobsworths you'd expect filling those roles (at a guess - minimum wage, short-term contracts, poor hours & poor conditions).
My experience of Northern is nearly all on the Western side of the Pennines
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I find staff actually employed by Northern to be good, but the security guards to be exactly what you'd expect from minimum wage security guards - poor. They really should not be doing customer facing roles - they are for guarding stuff.
Surely Middlesbrough have played on an evening before (the football capacity is bigger than the concert) and Northern cope fine?
I have heard positive things about how they handle capacity at much bigger Stadium of Light and SJP gigs. Their service at Ed Sheeran gigs at Newcastle who had 20k more the Riverside will have was excellent. But maybe again it’s a regional divide and the Tyne Valley line gets a better service...
trainophile
Established Member
Apologies for not reading the whole thread, but how much notice do we tend to get about the Sunday cancellations? Is it only when you check on NRE in the morning, by which time it’s probably too late to try to get an earlier non-cancelled train?
What’s the situation with onward travel if you miss your connection with another operator on an Advance ticket due to a cancelled Northern service?
What’s the situation with onward travel if you miss your connection with another operator on an Advance ticket due to a cancelled Northern service?
I'd like to be charitable, but I suspect that the people running Northern have half reconciled themselves to losing the franchise and really can't be bothered. I shouldn't have to look at my phone at 7am to see whether my train to Leeds is running or not, or delayed.
In 20 or so years of commuting into Leeds, I can't recall such a slapdash operation since, well, since the last time Arriva had it. There seems to be no urgency to deal with niggling delays which turn into regular late running.
In 20 or so years of commuting into Leeds, I can't recall such a slapdash operation since, well, since the last time Arriva had it. There seems to be no urgency to deal with niggling delays which turn into regular late running.
Bantamzen
Established Member
As another long term commuter into & through Leeds, I can say with confidence that it is nowhere near as bad as it was back then. I commute from Baildon > Shipley/Guiseley > Leeds and back and although there are currently delays in some areas, particularly early morning when the rail treatment train runs late and trips over a lot of the first services, it simply doesn't compare to days when the old Arriva franchise were running the services into the ground. What we have in and around West Yorkshire is vastly improved with more services, increased capacity and frankly way better punctuality.
Slapdash. Yes that is a great word to sum up Northern. Even when everything is absolutely 100% under their control and they can't try to pass the blame on, everything is always a bit meh!
quantinghome
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You must be using a different Guiseley to Leeds service! There are regular cancellations of trains at peak hours which is a huge problem for passengers relying on the service to get to work. I didn't use the service in the old Arriva Trains Northern days so can't compare, but the service now is very much worse than it was under Abellio, when cancellations were a rarity.
Bantamzen
Established Member
I must indeed, it is very rare for me to suffer a cancellation on either the Aire or Wharfe services, so you must be getting very unlucky. Delays yes sometimes, but cancellations generally not. And I travel at various different times of the day & weekends too.
oscarthecat92
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Recently they must have had poor unit availability as there have been frequent morning peak train cancellations due to more trains needing repair than usual at the same time
Bantamzen
Established Member
Well there have been the odd issues with the 331s, but I don't think there have ever been more than 2 out on the triangle services at any one time. The 321/322s have been getting more unreliable in recent months, and elsewhere someone has noted that at least one 333 has been sat at Skipton for a couple of weeks now. Add to that the rail treatment train that runs around the triangle, often up to 45 late, just before the first services of the day & maybe its all turning into a bad period. Like I say I've been lucky, I've had delays but not cancellations.
But it still is nowhere as bad as the previous Arriva franchise, and nowhere near as bad as it has been in the North West. Once the crappy weather gets out of the way, and the 331s settle in and fully replace the 321/322s I fully expect things to return to a good service as it has been previously.
It really depends on what they can get organised. The service is of course resourced to the level required to meet the everyday timetable. But if they can scrabble together extra stock and crew then they do tend to try and run extra services. I'm aware that they've run four car Pacer services from Middlesbrough to, I think, St Peter's on derby days and I think they've done similar from Newcastle to St Peter's. But it all depends on what they can cobble together!
In the past I'm aware that when there' a major event on somewhere in the North East they'll say in advance if they're not running extra services or later last trains so at least people can plan.
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