• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Caledonian Sleeper

BRX

Established Member
Joined
20 Oct 2008
Messages
3,598
I posted this question in trip reports but haven't had any response so I'll try here since it's a dedicated CS thread...

What are the loadings likley to be on either the Fort William or Inverness in January? Is one cheaper than the other?

Thinking of doing the sleeper in January and just fishing for ideas, I'll be paying for a cabin as the new seated sleeper car looks horrific compared to the previous Mk2 stock.
Fort William is the more interesing journey. I'd do that one if the prices were similar.
There is a lot less capacity on the FW train, so perhaps that means a greater risk of cheaper tickets selling out quickly... But I expect the demand is higher on the inverness train in January.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

TimboM

Established Member
Joined
12 Apr 2016
Messages
3,732
Are the lights dimmed in the seated coach?

I've used the Mk2 seated coach and only got a couple of hours sleep at the most, at least it was relatively dark and the seats were large and comfortable, the new seated coach doesn't look like it was actually designed with sleeping in mind...
Not dimmed due to Health and Safety requirements (apparently). Eye-masks are provided.
 

leightonbd

Member
Joined
4 Oct 2013
Messages
321
Location
Edinburgh (South Sub)
I had my first ride on the new stock last week, a Classic room (the only one available). I hadn’t appreciated that Classic=Standard (and Club=First), meaning no lounge access for a shower. Since I was travelling home (northbound) I was fairly relaxed about that, but less so when I checked in and was told there was no water in my cabin (not the whole coach, just my cabin). Try having an all over wash in the toilet at the end of the corridor ...

I was told I’d get 50% back as recompense. I will take that (though CS haven’t acknowledged my request yet), but it would have been no compensation to me had I been travelling to work, and forced to arrive unwashed.

On the upside: boarded on time (2230), arrived on time, smooth ride, comfortable bed, temperature just right. Clever little storage nooks to prop your iPad etc while charging. The room does feel small, though (maybe because both beds are down, which I’m not used to). I think I’d pay more for the Club in future.
 

Essexman

Established Member
Joined
15 Mar 2011
Messages
1,380
Arrived on time in Edinburgh. Only problem was locomotive immediately detached so no power for shower or to flush toilet. Staff said it is normal as they are trying to minimise time in platform but it would be helpful if they told passengers. She said it also causes problems in kitchen as they can’t wash up.
 

Scotrail84

Established Member
Joined
5 Jul 2010
Messages
2,360
Arrived on time in Edinburgh. Only problem was locomotive immediately detached so no power for shower or to flush toilet. Staff said it is normal as they are trying to minimise time in platform but it would be helpful if they told passengers. She said it also causes problems in kitchen as they can’t wash up.


Why wait until you've arrived at Edinburgh to have a shower:s? You'd be as well getting a free shower token and using the station showers.
 

Essexman

Established Member
Joined
15 Mar 2011
Messages
1,380
Why wait until you've arrived at Edinburgh to have a shower:s? You'd be as well getting a free shower token and using the station showers.
Thought it was easier to use facility on train and not to have to get dressed twice but did use station shower in the end, although paid £5 as didn’t know I could get a token.
 

tigerroar

On Moderation
Joined
30 May 2010
Messages
528
Location
Gloucester
I'm on the lowlander tonight, I did the old stock to Inverness in June and it was plain sailing, hopefully it'll be the same again tonight with none of the regular excuses or horror stories!
 

Kite159

Veteran Member
Joined
27 Jan 2014
Messages
19,155
Location
West of Andover
Are the lights dimmed in the seated coach?

I've used the Mk2 seated coach and only got a couple of hours sleep at the most, at least it was relatively dark and the seats were large and comfortable, the new seated coach doesn't look like it was actually designed with sleeping in mind...

The lights above the windows were turned off, but the lights on the ceiling were left on.
 

hkstudent

Established Member
Joined
11 Nov 2018
Messages
1,357
Location
SE London
I suspect there's a bit of an issue with railway regs not being written with sleepers entirely in mind given that they are a tiny part of the operation.
2 Caledonia Sleepers and 1 GWR Night Riviera, too tiny for asking manpower to write a specific regulation for this.
Is it possible to bypass the light requirement by compartmenting the seats as well?
 

Mogz

Member
Joined
20 May 2019
Messages
445
Compartmenting the seats?

Can’t be done.

That would set a precedent.

Passengers might start asking to have compartment seating on day trains, and before you know it they would also want comfortable sprung seats, restaurant cars and guards’ vans for large quantities of luggage.

Where would it all end??
 

BRX

Established Member
Joined
20 Oct 2008
Messages
3,598
What, in fact, are the "railway regs" that apply to this sort of thing?
 

BRX

Established Member
Joined
20 Oct 2008
Messages
3,598
But what are the "railway lighting regulations" - who are they written by, who assesses whether they are complied with? Are they UK specific, or is there a combination of UK and European/international rules that need to be complied with?
 

BRX

Established Member
Joined
20 Oct 2008
Messages
3,598
If you have a spare £176, you can buy a copy of the standards and find out!

https://shop.bsigroup.com/ProductDetail/?pid=000000000030353442
Ok, so there's a BS / EN standard, but that's not quite the same as a regulation, as I understand it.

I'm familiar with building regulations, and building regulations are law in as much as if you are a building owner and carry out building work, it must comply with those regulations. The building regulations quite often refer to BS and EN standards, but generally only as one route, not the only one, to meeting the requirements of the building regulations.

What I'm getting at, is, when someone says that the lights can't be turned down because of "railway regulations", is it actually true that there's no way to do it, or does it just mean that someone making a decision has taken the easiest route out, when actually whatever legislation applies isn't that prescriptive? Because this does happen quite a lot. Maybe EN 13272 has some recommended standards for lighting in various scenarios, but does it mean that these are absolutely what you have to comply with, or are they what you comply with if you can't be bothered putting a bit more thought into the process?
 

GLC

Member
Joined
21 Nov 2018
Messages
298
This is an absolute guess, but I could believe that the standard/regulation/whatever states that all routes to emergency exits much be clearly visible at all times. By dimming the lights someone could argue that you’ve made the routes less visible than they could otherwise be. In a similar vein to making so many employees across various industries wear PPE. Better safe than sorry for an employer to over impose its use, than under impose. Better to have the carriage too bright then too dark.
 

TimboM

Established Member
Joined
12 Apr 2016
Messages
3,732
This is an absolute guess, but I could believe that the standard/regulation/whatever states that all routes to emergency exits much be clearly visible at all times. By dimming the lights someone could argue that you’ve made the routes less visible than they could otherwise be. In a similar vein to making so many employees across various industries wear PPE. Better safe than sorry for an employer to over impose its use, than under impose. Better to have the carriage too bright then too dark.
I believe the “H&S” considerations are more to do with the staff/crew being able to see where they’re going and not trip over bags or people than emergency exits etc.
 

BRX

Established Member
Joined
20 Oct 2008
Messages
3,598
Could they use that technology that cinema stewards have - the torch?
 

Crepello

Member
Joined
29 Jun 2018
Messages
56
I'm on the lowlander tonight, I did the old stock to Inverness in June and it was plain sailing, hopefully it'll be the same again tonight with none of the regular excuses or horror stories!

I did likewise in June - hope your trip's going well tonight and that you'll keep us posted.

Compartmenting... sprung seats... restaurant cars.... guards’ vans... Where would it all end??

Possibly with a riot - First Class comes closest to what you describe, yet witness the vociferous calls for its abolition! The largest market segment demands the lowest possible fares, thus maximum seating density and minimal amenity costs.
 

Essexman

Established Member
Joined
15 Mar 2011
Messages
1,380
Came back from Aberdeen last night. Excellent journey until we sat outside Euston for 40 minutes due to points failure but I wasn’t in a hurry and will be glad to claim delay repay.

CS bacon rolls are excellent. Far better than the limp one I had on scotrail HST yesterday.
 

mark-h

Member
Joined
14 Jan 2015
Messages
374
This is an absolute guess, but I could believe that the standard/regulation/whatever states that all routes to emergency exits much be clearly visible at all times. By dimming the lights someone could argue that you’ve made the routes less visible than they could otherwise be.
Dimming some lights could make the emergency exits easier to find as their signs would stand out more. Seat mounted down lighters would make the gangways visible and safe without disturbing those who are sleeping.
 

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
97,533
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
Possibly with a riot - First Class comes closest to what you describe, yet witness the vociferous calls for its abolition! The largest market segment demands the lowest possible fares, thus maximum seating density and minimal amenity costs.

The seated coach is First Class. It's basically identical to First Class in a Class 800.

If they wanted to cram people in they could have done 2+2 like GWR did.
 

Ianno87

Veteran Member
Joined
3 May 2015
Messages
15,215
Came back from Aberdeen last night. Excellent journey until we sat outside Euston for 40 minutes due to points failure but I wasn’t in a hurry and will be glad to claim delay repay.

CS bacon rolls are excellent. Far better than the limp one I had on scotrail HST yesterday.

Agree on the bacon rolls :)
 

TimboM

Established Member
Joined
12 Apr 2016
Messages
3,732
92033 with five Mk3 sleepers on their way to Carnforth tonight (5Z43).

 

Top