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313s on Southern: appalling
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londonteacher
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Is this not subjective? Some people like the 313s, but they are old.
Ideally an add-on order (if possible) of 717s that replaced the 313s on Great Northern.
Ideally an add-on order (if possible) of 717s that replaced the 313s on Great Northern.
61653 HTAFC
Veteran Member
The 717s have lots of features specific to the Moorgate line which would add unnecessary complication and cost if specified for the Coastway, such as the emergency end doors. There's no requirement for this on the Coastway: the only reason 313s are used is because they're what was available at the time. A standard Desiro City bodyshell would suffice, but the replacement for the 313s will probably end up being 377s cascaded from elsewhere on the Southern... or maybe the 707s.
Robertj21a
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I quite like them !
Didn't know that they replaced 377s, when was that ?. I thought they'd been working the Coastway services to Worthing etc for ages.
swt_passenger
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They arrived only after the stock’s withdrawal from Silverlink Metro services, which dates back to around 2010.
Fincra5
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Haha! About time you made a thread about them. 313's are usually bashed by you in other, unrelated, threads.
3 Coaches - that's how they were built.
Agreed the window's aren't great but thats 70's Double Glazing for you. Mostly the stock needs a wash, like 377s, as they all get filthy in Autumn and Winter.
Dusty/Hard Seats are the same as the 3+2 seats on 377s - the other difference is the 377s have been refreshed inside so have new fabric.
The 377s had to go to London for Capacity Boost. Ala, the 10Car Metro. Currently they are still needed for said services (and the odd Tonbridge).
The Government pull the strings on the GTR franchise, so any stock replacement is down to them. At one point they were to be replaced by 377/5s but SE desperately needed them for capacity. Come the next franchise I'm sure they will go but its down to the DaFT to order them, as far as this current franchise goes.
They're not the only stock to do 1hr+ Journeys without toilets. I do agree they're not suited for Brighton- Portsmouth runs.
At the end of the day they do the job for now. I quite like driving them too.
MatthewRead
On Moderation
Too right they should be replaced they are in dire condition!
aleandrail
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I travel down to Bognor Regis a couple of times a year to spend a few days travelling on the Southern system and I have no problem travelling on these old workhorses. Have done a few Barnham to Portsmouth trips on them without any issues. Maybe it would be different if i used them on a daily basis, I do not know.
And many short platforms so what ever replaces them needs SDO especially for the doubling up units (or equivalent)
Sprinter107
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I very much like them. Reliable too so i understand.
When they aren't gapped maybe
and when they aren't on fire
They're fairly dire for staff conditions and by modern standards are poor, espeically for what the South is used to. Some of the criteria though like "over 1 hour" isn't a criticism of stock though. I'd say replace them with 465s, but at the current rate GTR's franchise may end before Southeastern's!
465s are beyond salvation at this point, it's best to stick with the 313s until 707s are available to displace 377s to the Coastways.
Islineclear3_1
Established Member
Personally, I like them.
Agreed, not as comfortable as the 377/3's - or the slammers but, at least they are doing the job well considering their age
Agreed, not as comfortable as the 377/3's - or the slammers but, at least they are doing the job well considering their age
I think the 313s do a great job considering their age but one bugbear is the dodgy heating. If on at all, it often seems to be set too low to actually warm the carriages properly. This may be down to a lack of maintenance as similar classes elsewhere (314s, 315s, 507s and 508s) for the most part have excellent heating, even too efficient on occasions. They could certainly be cleaner, but that's not the train's fault.
The seating isn't bad in my opinion. I'm well used to it living on Merseyside where all our 507s and 508s have had the same type for years. It's ideal for commuter work and infinitely better than the seating found on stock such as the older 317s and 319s. At least it's at a comfortable height and it doesn't feel like you're virtually on the floor.
For short routes like Brighton to Hove, Lewes and Littlehampton to Bognor (and arguably Brighton to West Worthing and Seaford), 377s were clearly wasted on such duties, but I do agree that 313s are unsuitable for Brighton - Portsmouth. Not complaining, mind: as a 313 fan, it's a nice run out for the old girls.
The seating isn't bad in my opinion. I'm well used to it living on Merseyside where all our 507s and 508s have had the same type for years. It's ideal for commuter work and infinitely better than the seating found on stock such as the older 317s and 319s. At least it's at a comfortable height and it doesn't feel like you're virtually on the floor.
For short routes like Brighton to Hove, Lewes and Littlehampton to Bognor (and arguably Brighton to West Worthing and Seaford), 377s were clearly wasted on such duties, but I do agree that 313s are unsuitable for Brighton - Portsmouth. Not complaining, mind: as a 313 fan, it's a nice run out for the old girls.
Andrew Holland
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I remember them from regularly using Silverlink services to North Woolwich around 2005. I see they've had a pretty decent refurb since then, carpets too now?
Compared with the pacers up north that we're still putting up with for a few months longer and the dirty, smelly old 150s that will mostly replace them, the 313s would represent a considerable step up in quality!
Lack of a loo is a bad thing though, even Northerner's up here in Manchester get one of those (doesn't always work though)...
OT but what's wrong with the 465s anyways, someone else mentioned them. I've always rather liked them and they are still massively better than the 319s!
Compared with the pacers up north that we're still putting up with for a few months longer and the dirty, smelly old 150s that will mostly replace them, the 313s would represent a considerable step up in quality!
Lack of a loo is a bad thing though, even Northerner's up here in Manchester get one of those (doesn't always work though)...
OT but what's wrong with the 465s anyways, someone else mentioned them. I've always rather liked them and they are still massively better than the 319s!
Terry Tait
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465s could be fantastic if given a decent refurbishment and would make a good replacement for 313s , every other train company with PEP stock are getting rid of it, it's knackered.
MatthewRead
On Moderation
Clearance needs to be taken into account!
And SDO would be very useful if not a key requirement which rules them out?
Terry Tait
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SDO could be fitted retrospectively
One thing to remember is it’s not actually up to GTR whether or not they’re replaced, it’s up to DfT. Should there be an extension to the GTR franchise then it is of course possible that DfT will specify this, and they could theoretically do so before then if stock became available.
Fincra5
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Nail on the head. The DfT seem quite happy with the current stock on GTR. 313s are dirt cheap to lease as well.
Currently 313 Diagrams could be replaced by 4 car units (without SDO) as they don't operate much, if at all, in 6 car formation; since the East Coast went to 6tph and the Lewes Shuttles on football days are 5 car 377s.
But its all down to the DfT.
WesternLancer
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no - relatively recently it seems to me (tho I've been about long enough to recall 2 / 4 HAP type stuff on coastway!) -it was when some of the 377 fleet had to be moved away to fill other gaps.
Quite like the 313s - shame Southern don't keep them clean and tidy though as when they introduced them they made much of the refurbs they had undertaken on them. At least they don't have the strange 'body odour' smell that seems to pervade electrostars for some reason!
I'd say a 313 is ideal for a short EMU shuttle service on at least parts of the routes they use them on.
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GW43125
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They'd barely fit anywhere, also bear in mind that a 5car train can't go into Brighton 3 off the W. Coastway so you'd lose flexibility.
PG
Established Member
Much mention of DfT being responsible for whatever stock is used on GTR.
Since DfT now own about half the class 365 fleet is there a good reason why they couldn't replace the 313's?
Since DfT now own about half the class 365 fleet is there a good reason why they couldn't replace the 313's?
But not economically given the work required.
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