I agree in part - I could only have voted for George Osborne in 2017 because I supported Theresa May as party leader and likely Prime Minister. Had circumstances have been reversed so that George Osborne was my local candidate with Boris Johnson as party leader, I could not vote Conservative because of the latter in spite of the former. But that's my opinion and my decision, and others will differ of course!
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The 2019 General Election - Campaign Debate and Discussion
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Yes, I agree, but I think he's also a liar, a coward and a fantasist and, as such, I neither like him nor believe he's suitable to be our Prime Minister. If these aren't true, it's my problem for believing that they are.
Switzerland was the first country in the world to switch off terrestrial TV a few months ago as cable is so widespread. The Dutch speaking public broadcaster in Belgium switched off its own terrestrial transmissions about a year ago, although commercial TV remains. Sky has been talking about dishless subscriptions for a couple of years now and has already launched in Austria and Italy.
They've talked about it, sure, but in the UK they've not actually done owt.
IMHO the UK's broadband infrastructure is nowhere near ready to replace satellite and terrestrial TV. It isn't just an issue of speed, it's reliability that's the real issue. Until broadband is as reliable as the electricity supply, it won't replace dishes and aerials as the best way to get live TV.
A brief interuption to your Netfilxing caused by a broadband glitch might not be too bad but imagine England have reached the final of the 2030 World Cup (yes, I know... but just imagine).......
...the match has gone to penalties....the crucial spot kick is about to be taken...and.....buffering....buffering...buffering.
edwin_m
Veteran Member
I would also consider voting Labour based on the merits of our local candidate. However they are new to the constituency and there is virtually no information easily available on their own views, so unless I hear differently before voting day I will just have to assume they are a cookie-cutter Corbynite and vote accordingly.
However in this election I believe anyone standing as a Conservative candidate has to be assumed to support a leader who is routinely dishonest and whose flagship policy will trash the economy for no real benefit. There used to be some Conservative MPs who thought differently, but most of them have been turfed out or jumped before they were pushed. However good the candidate themselves* appears, I would have to conclude that at the very least they are showing bad judgment in associating themselves with the party.
*getting into a twist with gender-neutral pronouns!
However in this election I believe anyone standing as a Conservative candidate has to be assumed to support a leader who is routinely dishonest and whose flagship policy will trash the economy for no real benefit. There used to be some Conservative MPs who thought differently, but most of them have been turfed out or jumped before they were pushed. However good the candidate themselves* appears, I would have to conclude that at the very least they are showing bad judgment in associating themselves with the party.
*getting into a twist with gender-neutral pronouns!
DarloRich
Veteran Member
The sad thing for me is that we have a good local Labour candidate but to vote for them is to vote for Corbyn. I wont vote for Corbyn.
I think this is by definition unfortunately. They wouldn't have made the selection otherwise.
Their party leader is objectively an unscrupulous peddler of untruths and fictions, past, present and future. They must all know this, just as I am sure he knows himself that what he's saying isn't true, but it is in their assessment their best route to power - the only real goal of Boris Johnson.
Howardh
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No worries. By the time the internet comes back on half-an-hour later they are still arguing on VAR whether the keeper moved or not and they still won't have taken it.
Why is it pointless? I'm sure if you were a victim or the British Empire, descended from one, or knew one, you would probably think differently.
DynamicSpirit
Established Member
I'm afraid I agree. The Conservatives used to be a party that I disagreed with, but which had some principles. Now they seem to rapidly gone the same path as the US Republicans.... Willing to do anything, no matter how unethical, including freely lying, in order to keep their Great Leader in power. Those senior figures who want to stay honest or true to their principles appear to have, on the whole, either been kicked out or quietly left.
Labour by contrast has moved in a direction that I do not particularly agree with, but people in the Labour Party are still, on the whole, motivated by moral principles (albeit in some cases, IMO unrealistic ones), and seems to be conducting a campaign that is relatively honest (insofar as political campaiging usually goes). I have many doubts about Corbyn, but I'll choose him any day over just about anyone who is still in the Conservative Party. And, to Labour's credit, they are standing a fair few candidates who are not really Corbyn supporters.
telstarbox
Established Member
The first televised debate is tonight @ 2000.
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Have the French had any similar thoughts, considering the amount of their colonial rule in Africa alone?
AlterEgo
Veteran Member
What makes you incorrectly assume I’m not, out of interest?
Your hyperbole in describing one fairly minor announcement as "annihilation" of the Party's electoral chances.
causton
Established Member
"What would you put under the Christmas tree for the other leader - without getting political?"
"A copy of my Brexit deal"
...yes.
DarloRich
Veteran Member
Yet Corbyn couldn't answer simple questions like which side of a brexit referendum would you campaign on and would you rule out a Scottish independence referendum in year 1 of the parliament!
He also got an easy pass on antisemitism
AlterEgo
Veteran Member
That’s not quite what I said, I said they’ve started to annihilate their chances.
Their vacillation on Brexit will be much more telling. I don’t think many people will give much stock to a Labour-commissioned report into colonialism. It will tell nobody anything that wasn’t known already, but will give fuel to reparations fanatics and those who think the sons, grandsons and great grandsons of the guilty must shoulder a burden they never created for themselves.
Corbyn is never likely to be PM. People are sold by Johnson’s charisma, despite the fact he could not really give a dam about anyone except himself and his own brand image. This election has the two worst candidates for PM in recent history (for the parties most likely to win that is).
I'm not hugely inclined to vote for either, but felt overall Corbyn landed more punches. Johnson just fell back on tired Brexit slogan repeatedly.
Agree with you on the antisemitism (Corbyn getting off too easily), though he did score a 'win' on turning the Prince Andrew question to Epstein's victims.
Yes - completely over the top, and also not a rational analysis of the actual principle behind the policy.
Or, it could be food for thought to those who've never considered it before, or to people who have never seen critical analysis of the British Empire. It could also help to put people who are concerned about the view of the Empire some people have been misguided into at ease.
Suggesting it's a policy that's fanatical, or which supports fanatics, isn't credible.
Did you see him tonight? Charismatic is... not the word I would use.
Gordon Brown put it in a better performance at debate than either of the two on tonight. That's saying something.
AlterEgo
Veteran Member
Politics isn’t rational, as you displayed when immediately assuming - without asking - my personal background, and de facto treating all descendants of “Empire victims” as a political monolith.
Identity politics is poison to society and true liberalism.
Pyreneenguy
Member
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Overall I'd say the debate was a waste of time. It was a terrible, terrible rush, the two hopefuls didn't have the time to expand their thoughts which , if they had been allowed the time to do so, might have made a difference, instead of the 49/51% stalemate.
Corbyn's last words, on his gift to Johnson was probably his best moment. His prose flowed freely and eloquently. Johnson's reply was a complete mess.
Surely such an important debate merited at least a couple of hours, with the possibility of the candidates to use more time on a crucial subject ?
Pyreneenguy
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Me neither. The majority of the Tory electorate would probably vote for a monkey if it promised to let them keep all their ill gotten gains. The saddest thing about this election is that the result will be decided by "Working Class" Leavers who have been fooled into believing that Brexit is in their best interest. So Boris gets Brexit done, what will these people get for their sacrifice ? Using best Queen's English, f*** all !
Please don't insult my intelligence. I haven't been fooled into anything.
I've got absolutely nothing against anyone from any country, but as a tenant in the private rented sector controlled immigration and less competition for housing would benefit me and many millions like me (including many existing immigrants and many children of immigrants.).
bramling
Veteran Member
Ill-gotten gains?
In the majority of cases this will have been through going out to work and earning a salary, perhaps in a few cases supplemented after many years by a bit of inheritance. I wouldn’t call that ill-gotten.
Fact is most Conservative voters aren’t mega rich.
433N
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In summary, for time immemorial the Tories have advocated that the housing rental market is dictated by supply and demand. The 'supply and demand' approach has now led to rocketing rents and increased homelessness. You perceive yourself to be disadvantaged by this, but blame immigration and (presumably) countenance voting Tory to carry Brexit through in an attempt to curb it ... and you 'haven't been fooled into anything'.
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