TFW Timetable December

Phil from Mon · 6 Nov 2019

From the TFW stock shortages thread in rolling stock

6Gtraincrew said:
Tfw have released a new blog yesterday outlining some rolling stock plans

https://tfwrail.wales/one-year

“One of our key commitments was to speed up journey times between north and south Wales. From December this will be in place, shaving off more than 40 minutes on the current journey time.“

I’d not seen that before. Anyone know if it is all trains or just a selected few? Quite a step change in any case. Also confirms the substantial increases in Sunday services mentioned elsewhere.

Edit: Just looked in RTT and can’t see any sign of an acceleration there yet.

RailUK Forums

30907 · 6 Nov 2019

Phil from Mon said:
From the TFW stock shortages thread in rolling stock

“One of our key commitments was to speed up journey times between north and south Wales. From December this will be in place, shaving off more than 40 minutes on the current journey time.“

I’d not seen that before. Anyone know if it is all trains or just a selected few? Quite a step change in any case. Also confirms the substantial increases in Sunday services mentioned elsewhere.

Edit: Just looked in RTT and can’t see any sign of an acceleration there yet.

Imagine it's the extra loco hauled workings? Think this is the fastest
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y90765/2019-12-17/detailed.
But the blog is misleading if you don't remember the original proposal.

Phil from Mon · 6 Nov 2019

30907 said:
Imagine it's the extra loco hauled workings? Think this is the fastest
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y90765/2019-12-17/detailed.
But the blog is misleading if you don't remember the original proposal.

They don’t look any faster than at present in the main. Maybe he was just talking of the Sunday service, I’ve not looked at that.

30907 · 6 Nov 2019

Phil from Mon said:
They don’t look any faster than at present in the main. Maybe he was just talking of the Sunday service, I’ve not looked at that.

Agreed, the retimed 0702 is decidedly the exception.

anthony263 · 7 Nov 2019

Many off the off peak swanline services have been retained to leave Swansea earlier at p5 minutes past rather than 10 past the hour. By the looks of the timetable the swanline services are only 3 minutes or so in front of the swansea to london services by the time they get to Cardiff central. Extending some of the ebbw vale to Cardiff services through to bridgend would prove popular especially if the previous gwr services are very busy.

anthony263 · 7 Nov 2019

Here is one timetable I've found online for tfw local services between Cardiff and Swansea

Jez · 8 Nov 2019

I have noticed they have swapped the first Swansea-Manchester and it now departs Swansea earlier and forms the Swanline service and goes to Manchester whilst the 0707 now goes as far as Cardiff.

DaveHarries · 9 Nov 2019

anthony263 said:
Many off the off peak swanline services have been retained to leave Swansea earlier at p5 minutes past rather than 10 past the hour. By the looks of the timetable the swanline services are only 3 minutes or so in front of the swansea to london services by the time they get to Cardiff central. Extending some of the ebbw vale to Cardiff services through to bridgend would prove popular especially if the previous gwr services are very busy.

Indeed it could do but I think it would be more likely to be the other way around. I remember once standing on Platform 2 at Cardiff Central waiting for the train to Bristol Temple Meads. Looking across the line I could see that Platform 3 was heaving. An ATW (as it was then) Class 17x turned up and took as many passengers as it could but Platform 3 was still packed when the 17x left. The next train on Platform 3 was a 10-car Class 800 to Swansea and when that had left Platform 3 was empty.

Dave

Jez · 9 Nov 2019

anthony263 said:
Many off the off peak swanline services have been retained to leave Swansea earlier at p5 minutes past rather than 10 past the hour. By the looks of the timetable the swanline services are only 3 minutes or so in front of the swansea to london services by the time they get to Cardiff central. Extending some of the ebbw vale to Cardiff services through to bridgend would prove popular especially if the previous gwr services are very busy.

The arrival time of the Swanline in Cardiff Central will have some padding in the timetable as the service terminates there. At Bridgend it is about 8 or 9 minutes ahead of GWR and there are no stops between Bridgend and Cardiff so should arrive in Cardiff earlier than the advertised time. Having said that it is still a performance risk to the GWR due to often losing time with the regular stops between Swansea-Port Talbot especially if it is a 153.

I noticed that one of the West Wales to Manchesters (think the 1055 from Swansea) from December timetable terminates at Cardiff and requires a change to continue journey onwards to Newport and Manchester. I wonder why this is. Assume they are just using a different set from Cardiff.

Belperpete · 10 Nov 2019

I note that there are many train cancellations on the Cambrian network this Sunday due to shortages of train-crew. How realistic is the significantly improved Sunday service from December if they can't even resource the current meagre service?

Tomos y Tanc · 10 Nov 2019

Belperpete said:
I note that there are many train cancellations on the Cambrian network this Sunday due to shortages of train-crew. How realistic is the significantly improved Sunday service from December if they can't even resource the current meagre service?

TfW did employ a large number of trainee drivers (around 100 IIRC) shortly after taking over the franchise. Presumably they'll be compleating their training around the time of the timtable change.

craigybagel · 11 Nov 2019

Tomos y Tanc said:
TfW did employ a large number of trainee drivers (around 100 IIRC) shortly after taking over the franchise. Presumably they'll be compleating their training around the time of the timtable change.

Some of them are already qualified and are out and about productive. Lots more to come and both training schools are very busy - as soon as one group leaves another one moves in.

Envoy · 11 Nov 2019

It is regrettable that passengers from Barry/ Rhoose & Llantwit Major have a wait of around 20 minutes at Bridgend before they can progress westward - usually on a GWR train.

Why does it say "Grangetown (Vale of Glam)" on the timetable? Grangetown is not in the Vale of Glamorgan but in Cardiff.

Llanigraham · 11 Nov 2019

Because it is served by the VoG line trains?

Tomos y Tanc · 11 Nov 2019

Envoy said:
Why does it say "Grangetown (Vale of Glam)" on the timetable? Grangetown is not in the Vale of Glamorgan but in Cardiff.

Maybe it's a reference to the line in order to differentiate it from the Cityline's Ninian Park which is also in Grangetown. You'd have thought the stations having different names would have been enough!

Envoy · 12 Nov 2019

Tomos y Tanc said:
Maybe it's a reference to the line in order to differentiate it from the Cityline's Ninian Park which is also in Grangetown. You'd have thought the stations having different names would have been enough!

I thought that Ninian Park was in Canton. (it is right by the Canton depot).

Phil from Mon · 20 Nov 2019

Further to their “key commitment” to reduce times between North and South Wales, just had confirmation from their Twitter people that the only acceleration is the 0702 departure from Cardiff. Disappointing for them to spin this the way they have as a general improvement.

Wilts Wanderer · 20 Nov 2019

Envoy said:
It is regrettable that passengers from Barry/ Rhoose & Llantwit Major have a wait of around 20 minutes at Bridgend before they can progress westward - usually on a GWR train.

Why does it say "Grangetown (Vale of Glam)" on the timetable? Grangetown is not in the Vale of Glamorgan but in Cardiff.

In the until the early 1990s there was another Grangetown station near Middlesbrough, this might be why Grangetown (Vale of Glam) is so designated.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grangetown_railway_station_(England)

krus_aragon · 20 Nov 2019

Wilts Wanderer said:
In the until the early 1990s there was another Grangetown station near Middlesbrough, this might be why Grangetown (Vale of Glam) is so designated.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grangetown_railway_station_(England)

That's a good reason to have a disambiguation, but why not describe it a Grangetown (Cardiff), like Whitchurch is, given that it isn't in the Vale of Glamorgan?

Tomos y Tanc · 21 Nov 2019

Envoy said:
I thought that Ninian Park was in Canton. (it is right by the Canton depot).

The station is in the Grangetown ward. Canton is a pretty amorphous concept. Strictly speaking, the Canton depot is in Riverside and Grangetown wards.

33017 · 22 Nov 2019

Tomos y Tanc said:
The station is in the Grangetown ward. Canton is a pretty amorphous concept. Strictly speaking, the Canton depot is in Riverside and Grangetown wards.

Technically, I believe the entire depot is in Grangetown (Brickyard Sidings and the SWCC are in Riverside), although the entrances to both Ninian Park station and the depot are both off Leckwith Road, which is in Canton.

Rhydgaled · 22 Nov 2019

PDF timetables now online. I had a quick look at timetable 3 to see if there were any improvements for Fishguard but was disapointed. They haven't even got rid of the now-pointless overnight train, although there is an error with the eastbound version of it on the Monday-Friday timetable. It is shown as a GWR service running through to Paddington! (see attached screenshot of that page of the timetable). Must be an error though as the inbound working is shown as a TfW service.

PHILIPE · 22 Nov 2019

Rhydgaled said:
PDF timetables now online. I had a quick look at timetable 3 to see if there were any improvements for Fishguard but was disapointed. They haven't even got rid of the now-pointless overnight train, although there is an error with the eastbound version of it on the Monday-Friday timetable. It is shown as a GWR service running through to Paddington! (see attached screenshot of that page of the timetable). Must be an error though as the inbound working is shown as a TfW service.
View attachment 70675

Obviously TOC error. TFW cannot get rid of the pointless train because it was in the Franchise spec based on the previous Stena sailing which, I presume, means a train must run between this and that time.

Rhydgaled · 22 Nov 2019

PHILIPE said:
TFW cannot get rid of the pointless train because it was in the Franchise spec based on the previous Stena sailing which, I presume, means a train must run between this and that time.

That was the case with the ATW franchise agreement (although didn't they withdraw it for a while before realising they had broken the franchise spec?) but I assumed that the new franchise spec would have fixed the flaw in the old one. Must confess that I can't currently remember the terms of the TfW contract.

splashoutradio · 22 Nov 2019

Rhydgaled said:
PDF timetables now online. I had a quick look at timetable 3 to see if there were any improvements for Fishguard but was disapointed. They haven't even got rid of the now-pointless overnight train, although there is an error with the eastbound version of it on the Monday-Friday timetable. It is shown as a GWR service running through to Paddington! (see attached screenshot of that page of the timetable). Must be an error though as the inbound working is shown as a TfW service.
View attachment 70675

Well spotted!
It looks like they may have accidentally merged two services - the 02:37 from Fishguard to Carmarthen and the 04:58 from Cardiff to London. Certainly wouldn't expect to see first class and a trolley service on a train from Fishguard to Carmarthen at that time

Baxenden Bank · 23 Nov 2019

PHILIPE said:
Obviously TOC error. TFW cannot get rid of the pointless train because it was in the Franchise spec based on the previous Stena sailing which, I presume, means a train must run between this and that time.

Rhydgaled said:
That was the case with the ATW franchise agreement (although didn't they withdraw it for a while before realising they had broken the franchise spec?) but I assumed that the new franchise spec would have fixed the flaw in the old one. Must confess that I can't currently remember the terms of the TfW contract.

So, why not change the franchise spec? Will there be large numbers of individuals or stakeholders objecting to the loss of a very unsocially timed train?
Seems rather wasteful to run this train simply because it's easier than agreeing a change. Far better to phrase the specification to 'two trains per day must operate to connect into, and out of, ferry sailings from Fishguard' - with perhaps a minimum/maximum connection time specified. That ensures a proper service for those who may wish to make a rail/sea trip.
Do the current other Fishguard trains make a good connection into/out of the ferry?

Rhydgaled · 24 Nov 2019

Baxenden Bank said:
So, why not change the franchise spec? Will there be large numbers of individuals or stakeholders objecting to the loss of a very unsocially timed train?
Seems rather wasteful to run this train simply because it's easier than agreeing a change. Far better to phrase the specification to 'two trains per day must operate to connect into, and out of, ferry sailings from Fishguard' - with perhaps a minimum/maximum connection time specified. That ensures a proper service for those who may wish to make a rail/sea trip.
Do the current other Fishguard trains make a good connection into/out of the ferry?

There are two sailings each way per day:

the 12:28 train arrival appears reasonable for the 13:10 to Rosslare
the 22:46 train arrival appears reasonable for the 23:45 to Rosslare
the 11:15 arrival from Rosslare is met by the 12:40 train departure
the 21:25 arrival from Rosslare is met by the 23:03 train departure

As well as the basicly pointless overnight working, there are a few more trains to/from Fishguard (14:xx on Sundays and four (06:xx, 07:xx, 09:xx and 19:xx) Mon-Sat) that don't have ferries to connect with. The 20:xx to/from Fishguard (which connected out of the 17:39 Cardiff-Milford service) that was introduced in 2011 was replaced by the 22:46 Fishguard arrival when the ferry was retimed.

The ATW specification did indeed require connections with the ferries (as does the new TfW specification) but made the mistake of also specifying that a train should run overnight. I'm not quite as clear about whether the new spec requires the overnight train, as it is presented in a different way.

Baxenden Bank · 24 Nov 2019

Rhydgaled said:
PDF timetables now online. I had a quick look at timetable 3 to see if there were any improvements for Fishguard but was disapointed. They haven't even got rid of the now-pointless overnight train, although there is an error with the eastbound version of it on the Monday-Friday timetable. It is shown as a GWR service running through to Paddington! (see attached screenshot of that page of the timetable). Must be an error though as the inbound working is shown as a TfW service.
View attachment 70675

Connections from the Pembroke branch into the Cardiff/London trains at Swansea essentially eliminated.

Printed/pdf timetables riddled with pretty basic errors.

There is no 1709 from Pembroke on Fridays!
There is no connection from the 1919 Pembroke to Tenby. Meanwhile a train arrives at Tenby from Carmarthen with no onward working to Pembroke Dock. No sorry, they are there, just 7 and 14 columns later respectively!

TFW Timetable December

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