Is London International CIV still a thing?

Fiyero · 20 Nov 2019

I am going to Paris in January on the Eurostar from St Pancras. I'm staying in London the weekend before and have booked a coach up to avoid engineering works.
I am due back around 22:00 and while I am sure I will easily make my intended 23:05 Waterloo - Eastleigh I was wondering if a CIV advance ticket was possible? I tried Raileasy and it refuses to do a single London International to Eastleigh and if I try the reverse (just to see what happens) it offers only flexible fares.
Thanks!

RailUK Forums

reb0118 · 20 Nov 2019

Yes, they are still a thing. However it is getting much harder to obtain them. You may have to try a booking office.

Fiyero · 20 Nov 2019

reb0118 said:
Yes, they are still a thing. However it is getting much harder to obtain them. You may have to try a booking office.

I didn't want to complicate my question but I tried that and I'm not really sure the clerk got what I wanted or they only offer flexible fares (which he said I could just buy on the day so no benefit).
If I book the non-civ London to Eastleigh advance it us under £10 right now and flexible (even with railcard) is nearer £30 so I'd rather a cheaper fare

reb0118 · 20 Nov 2019

I could put Harry to the test at Linlithgow tomorrow as he likes a challenge?.....

Fiyero · 20 Nov 2019

reb0118 said:
I could put Harry to the test at Linlithgow tomorrow as he likes a challenge?.....

The journey is St Pancras International - Eastleigh (ESL) on Friday 24th January 2020 catching the 23:05 Waterloo - Eastleigh. That gives 65 minutes for the connection which should be fine. I have Gold Card for my Eastleigh - Winchester Season ticket too if that helps

If anyone wants to take on the challenge :lol:

ashkeba · 20 Nov 2019

Fiyero said:
I didn't want to complicate my question but I tried that and I'm not really sure the clerk got what I wanted or they only offer flexible fares (which he said I could just buy on the day so no benefit).
If I book the non-civ London to Eastleigh advance it us under £10 right now and flexible (even with railcard) is nearer £30 so I'd rather a cheaper fare

Brfares says £47.something return but only Eastleigh to London Intl CIV not London to Eastleigh. Tips on buying at https://www.seat61.com/UKconnections.htm#Option 3 you might already know.

Fiyero · 20 Nov 2019

ashkeba said:
Brfares says £47.something return. Tips on buying at https://www.seat61.com/UKconnections.htm#Option 3 you might already know.

Thanks, that makes me think it doesn't exist (for my journey at least) as I can get a flexible ticket using my Gold Card discount for about half that

WesternLancer · 20 Nov 2019

Fiyero said:
I am going to Paris in January on the Eurostar from St Pancras. I'm staying in London the weekend before and have booked a coach up to avoid engineering works.
I am due back around 22:00 and while I am sure I will easily make my intended 23:05 Waterloo - Eastleigh I was wondering if a CIV advance ticket was possible? I tried Raileasy and it refuses to do a single London International to Eastleigh and if I try the reverse (just to see what happens) it offers only flexible fares.
Thanks!

Basically you can't buy them on line, you need to go to the ticket office - unless their is an Advance price little point in buying it in advance. See seat 61 as above.

You may need to print off seat 61 instructions or a page from BR fares.com with it on to show to the ticket office staff, as they may never have issued one before! Be politely persistent.

30907 · 20 Nov 2019

The single fares appear to be issued to/from London Eurostar LOE, and are under £10. The fare setter is SW so I would assume they are available - however, I have read that these fares are only for calculating ES through fares, so I am not certain.

Hadders · 20 Nov 2019

I think your plans fall foul of the minimum connection time.

St Pancras International interchange time is 35 minutes
Kings Cross St Pancras - Waterloo transit time 23 minutes
Waterloo interchange time 15 minutes

So you need to leave 73 minutes between arrival at STP and departure from WAT.

Fiyero · 20 Nov 2019

Hadders said:
I think your plans fall foul of the minimum connection time.

St Pancras International interchange time is 35 minutes
Kings Cross St Pancras - Waterloo transit time 23 minutes
Waterloo interchange time 15 minutes

So you need to leave 73 minutes between arrival at STP and departure from WAT.

I did wonder about that, there is a 23:35 which would be fine for me (and more than cover those interchange times) but it doesn’t seem to offer advance fares

RJ · 21 Nov 2019

30907 said:
The single fares appear to be issued to/from London Eurostar LOE, and are under £10. The fare setter is SW so I would assume they are available - however, I have read that these fares are only for calculating ES through fares, so I am not certain.

We've been told many times, in no uncertain terms that we are not to sell these fares in the ticket office. You ring Eurostar to get them.

Fiyero · 21 Nov 2019

RJ said:
We've been told many times, in no uncertain terms that we are not to sell these fares in the ticket office. You ring Eurostar to get them.

Would that be from the domestic sales line that closed a few years back. They don’t make it easy!

philjo · 21 Nov 2019

I bought a CIV single to London International from the local Great Northern ticket office for my Eurostar journey in August. I just had to show the Eurostar booking confirmation.

RJ · 21 Nov 2019

Fiyero said:
Would that be from the domestic sales line that closed a few years back. They don’t make it easy!

In that case you ring them and they tell you how you can get them

WesternLancer · 21 Nov 2019

RJ said:
We've been told many times, in no uncertain terms that we are not to sell these fares in the ticket office. You ring Eurostar to get them.

I've bought them from EMR ticket offices (ibnc one for a Richmond - St Pancras joruney - ie not on EMR route)

PS do you mean tickets to London International CIV that you are told not to sell, or the Eurostar through fares to UK origins/destinations, that you do get from Eurostar (inc on their website).

30907 · 21 Nov 2019

RJ said:
We've been told many times, in no uncertain terms that we are not to sell these fares in the ticket office.

Thanks, I thought there was some such restriction.

philjo said:
I bought a CIV single to London International from the local Great Northern ticket office for my Eurostar journey in August. I just had to show the Eurostar booking confirmation.

The problem is that there are fares to LNE London Int and to LOE London Eurostar; the latter are cheaper and offered as singles (because they are add-ons to ES fares). Some places such as Eastleigh only have return fares to LNE, hence the OP's problem.

PS Think that answers WesternLancer too?

WesternLancer · 21 Nov 2019

Fiyero said:
I am going to Paris in January on the Eurostar from St Pancras. I'm staying in London the weekend before and have booked a coach up to avoid engineering works.
I am due back around 22:00 and while I am sure I will easily make my intended 23:05 Waterloo - Eastleigh I was wondering if a CIV advance ticket was possible? I tried Raileasy and it refuses to do a single London International to Eastleigh and if I try the reverse (just to see what happens) it offers only flexible fares.
Thanks!

I see that Raileasy sell them on line in theory (drop down for origin/destination 'London International CIV')
http://www.raileasy.co.uk/

But if you do not meet the 'authorised connection time' and miss the last train I can't see why a TOC etc would then be obliged to taxi you or offer hotel if it was the last train.

Eurostar staff on board train and at ST P usually very happy to stamp your ticket on request with the 'hop on next train' delay stamp that comes via the rail gaurantee

see the missed connections bit here
https://www.seat61.com/Europe-train-travel.htm#When_things_go_wrong
and also this
https://www.seat61.com/UKconnections.htm

MotorcycleAlan · 21 Nov 2019

If you use a CIV ticket be prepared for confrontation at the London terminal you arrive at. We recently asked at Canterbury West for tickets to St Pancras on the high speed returning 10 days later. "Are you going on Eurostar"? Yes we replied. No problem on the train when checked. Tickets didn't work the barriers at St Pancras and staff asked us to pay an extra £70+ (for 2 people) as our tickets were not valid in the morning peak. A staff member in a SE uniform asked us where London International was, as he had never seen this on a ticket. After several minutes, with much tapping on a computer, phone calls and discussions with colleagues we were let through having been made to look like fare dodgers. On the way back we took a short cut, alighting at Ebbsfleet, and staff there opened the barriers without hesitation.

ashkeba · 21 Nov 2019

MotorcycleAlan said:
If you use a CIV ticket be prepared for confrontation at the London terminal you arrive at.

There are plenty of unusual tickets that London terminal gatelines in various places do not recognise readily. At least yours was willing to admit they did not know and phone through. This is another reason why it is a very good idea to allow the recommended connection time with these tickets.

Fiyero · 21 Nov 2019

30907 said:
Some places such as Eastleigh only have return fares to LNE, hence the OP's problem.

I could go to Southampton Airport Parkway (as the taxi home would be a similar fare) or get the ticket to Winchester as my season ticket covers the last bit of the journey if needed.

WesternLancer said:
Eurostar staff on board train and at ST P usually very happy to stamp your ticket on request with the 'hop on next train' delay stamp that comes via the rail gaurantee

Although I don't meet the connection time exactly I feel like Waterloo might accept this stamp, I am almost certain I won't see a guard once on the train!

WesternLancer · 21 Nov 2019

MotorcycleAlan said:
If you use a CIV ticket be prepared for confrontation at the London terminal you arrive at. We recently asked at Canterbury West for tickets to St Pancras on the high speed returning 10 days later. "Are you going on Eurostar"? Yes we replied. No problem on the train when checked. Tickets didn't work the barriers at St Pancras and staff asked us to pay an extra £70+ (for 2 people) as our tickets were not valid in the morning peak. A staff member in a SE uniform asked us where London International was, as he had never seen this on a ticket. After several minutes, with much tapping on a computer, phone calls and discussions with colleagues we were let through having been made to look like fare dodgers. On the way back we took a short cut, alighting at Ebbsfleet, and staff there opened the barriers without hesitation.

remarkable - tho there are off peak and peak versions (sometimes staff seem to know these as 'Euro High Saver' and 'Euro low saver' so in theory it's poss that you had the wrong one, tho as a user of this site I bet you didn't!

WesternLancer · 21 Nov 2019

Fiyero said:
I could go to Southampton Airport Parkway (as the taxi home would be a similar fare) or get the ticket to Winchester as my season ticket covers the last bit of the journey if needed.

Although I don't meet the connection time exactly I feel like Waterloo might accept this stamp, I am almost certain I won't see a guard once on the train!

Better than not having the stamp - tho save time by getting it done onboard the Eurostar train - or even at your terminal of departure if the delay is before you board (but not at the terminal after you get off where it would delay your travel to Waterloo) Euro* train manager happy to do it if late, but you may need to go and hind her / him.

Hadders · 21 Nov 2019

MotorcycleAlan said:
If you use a CIV ticket be prepared for confrontation at the London terminal you arrive at. We recently asked at Canterbury West for tickets to St Pancras on the high speed returning 10 days later. "Are you going on Eurostar"? Yes we replied. No problem on the train when checked. Tickets didn't work the barriers at St Pancras and staff asked us to pay an extra £70+ (for 2 people) as our tickets were not valid in the morning peak. A staff member in a SE uniform asked us where London International was, as he had never seen this on a ticket. After several minutes, with much tapping on a computer, phone calls and discussions with colleagues we were let through having been made to look like fare dodgers. On the way back we took a short cut, alighting at Ebbsfleet, and staff there opened the barriers without hesitation.

Disgraceful behaviour from South Eastern staff at St Pancras. London International tickets shouldn’t be that unusual there.

Please do complain to SE about this.

Fiyero · 21 Nov 2019

Ok, just asked at another ticket office and he agrees there is only the flexible one, so no real point Ona single as I have 2 hours wiggle room until the last train. Think I’ll get the advance one (without civ) and risk it as it’s so much cheaper.

Thanks for all the advice

johnnychips · 21 Nov 2019

If you can’t find one of the train managers on Eurostar to stamp your ticket if you will be late, ask at the bar and they will get him or her.

30907 · 21 Nov 2019

WesternLancer said:
remarkable - tho there are off peak and peak versions (sometimes staff seem to know these as 'Euro High Saver' and 'Euro low saver' so in theory it's poss that you had the wrong one, tho as a user of this site I bet you didn't!

There is only the one, unrestricted, from Canterbury.

WesternLancer · 22 Nov 2019

30907 said:
There is only the one, unrestricted, from Canterbury.

Thanks.

MotorcycleAlan · 22 Nov 2019

30907 said:
There is only the one, unrestricted, from Canterbury.

Indeed, which they eventually worked out, but led us to believe they were doing us a favour by letting us through. We assumed that Canterbury would not have sold us an invalid ticket in the first place.

philjo · 22 Nov 2019

I noticed today that the TVMs at Cambridge listed London International CIV as a destination but then said no fares available when I selected it.

Is London International CIV still a thing?

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