Did this break any rules? Being let out of gateline by staff member

gray1404 · 23 Nov 2019

I recently travelled with a TOC using one of their tickets in which you write the date in with a pen yourself. It was very hard to put the date on. I was actually worried I might be accused of altering one of the numbers making up the date. Of course, I know I've only used the ticket once.

Having had no problems during travel we were arriving into a terminal that is known for the TOC concerned using a private firm to do revenue protection who are very happy to report people. My friend was taking a connecting service whereas I was ending my journey there. It was in the middle of rush hour so to avoid any problems - and also my ticket couldn't operate barriers anyway - my friend (who is an off duty TOC employee) escorted me to the gateline and he used his staff pass to let me out (open the gateline).

I kept my ticket in hand in case of any questions and my friend said he'd be more then happy to explain to any gateline staff what he had done. So my question is this, none of this was noticed because it was so busy, but did either of us fall foul of any regulations.

From my end, I was let out by an authorized member of staff having travelled with a valid ticket. From my friends end he saved his colleagues on the manual gate having to let someone out at a vey busy time.

RailUK Forums

yorkie · 23 Nov 2019

I can't see how there is anything untoward here.

221129 · 23 Nov 2019

Your friend could get into trouble with their employer depending on their policies.

E100 · 23 Nov 2019

Did you have a valid ticket? If yes - no worries.

Generally, rover tickets and such are not looked with a great deal of skepticism by gateline staff beyond the end date being correct in my experience.

TUC · 23 Nov 2019

gray1404 said:
I recently travelled with a TOC using one of their tickets in which you write the date in with a pen yourself. It was very hard to put the date on. I was actually worried I might be accused of altering one of the numbers making up the date. Of course, I know I've only used the ticket once.

Having had no problems during travel we were arriving into a terminal that is known for the TOC concerned using a private firm to do revenue protection who are very happy to report people and then send them penalty fakes. My friend was taking a connecting service whereas I was ending my journey there. It was in the middle of rush hour so to avoid any problems - and also my ticket couldn't operate barriers anyway - my friend (who is an off duty TOC employee) escorted me to the gateline and he used his staff pass to let me out (open the gateline).

I kept my ticket in hand in case of any questions and my friend said he'd be more then happy to explain to any gateline staff what he had done. So my question is this, none of this was noticed because it was so busy, but did either of us fall foul of any regulations.

From my end, I was let out by an authorized member of staff having travelled with a valid ticket. From my friends end he saved his colleagues on the manual gate having to let someone out at a vey busy time.

Someone was kind and helpful. Why are you fussing about it?

Bletchleyite · 23 Nov 2019

Depending on TOC policy the person who let you through may have broken rules though I doubt it as it wasn't like they were letting you off the fare, just letting you through a barrier. However, as you were acting under the instructions of a member of staff (whether you know them is of no relevance) you have broken no rule.

Hadders · 23 Nov 2019

If your friend was off duty then are they an authorised member of staff? Shouldn’t they actually be working to execute their authority?

Whilst there’s nothing untoward here i’d be wary of doing this if I was your friend.

Bertie the bus · 23 Nov 2019

He is only an authorised person if his employer authorises him to use his staff pass to allow his mates out of the gate when he isn't working. I would put a large sum of money on them not authorising him to do that.

centraltrains · 23 Nov 2019

Railway Bylaws said:
9(2) Where the entrance to or exit from any platform or station is via a manned or an automatic ticket barrier no person shall enter or leave the station, except with permission from an authorised person, without passing through the barrier in the correct manner.

Would the described scenario be a "correct manner"?
Are railway staff still authorised if they are off-duty?

Mdog2018 · 24 Nov 2019

I let anyone out who has boxes. I don't see the issue.

E100 · 24 Nov 2019

A bit beside the point though I suspect most railway staff have a better grasp of the validity of tickets than many sub-contract gatelines based on experiences on here.

Lemmy99uk · 24 Nov 2019

If your friend was a trained and qualified gateline operative there is no issue.

Belperpete · 24 Nov 2019

Mdog2018 said:
I let anyone out who has boxes. I don't see the issue.

Even when you are off-duty?

Mag_seven · 24 Nov 2019

Most if not all staff passes that open gates and are valid for travel are issued for personal and exclusive use only by the person named on the pass. Using the pass to open the gate for someone else does not constitute correct usage in my opinion. I would therefore caution against any pass holder doing this.

ComUtoR · 24 Nov 2019

gray1404 said:
my friend (who is an off duty TOC employee) escorted me to the gateline and he used his staff pass to let me out (open the gateline).

He shouldn't be doing that. On technicality, I would say that he used his pass for someone else. He is only allowed to use his pass for himself.

I kept my ticket in hand in case of any questions and my friend said he'd be more then happy to explain to any gateline staff what he had done. So my question is this, none of this was noticed because it was so busy,

If a tree falls in the woods, does it still make a sound.

From my end, I was let out by an authorized member of staff having travelled with a valid ticket.

I believe that the 'authorised member of staff' is hotly debated as to who that may be. I am a TOC employee, even if I was on duty, I still wouldn't consider myself to be an 'authorised person'

From my friends end he saved his colleagues on the manual gate having to let someone out at a vey busy time.

Just because its convenient, doesn't make it right.

At the end of the day, you were given a courtesy by a friend who circumvented the system. The was no harm or malice intended and you had a valid ticket. Nobody was out to defraud anyone and there is minimal to no impact on anyone. However, staff are rightly held to a higher standard and are expected to use their passes in strict adherence to the rules.

swt_passenger · 24 Nov 2019

Mdog2018 said:
I let anyone out who has boxes. I don't see the issue.

This isn’t a member of staff who “has boxes” though, I believe the original poster is a member of the public and using a carnet ticket. Somewhat different scenario, I think.

philthetube · 25 Nov 2019

I am definitely not authorised but I do have a gate pass, normally I wouldn't but is some circumstances I would, every case on it's merits, but it would never happen if there were authorised staff around to help.

island · 25 Nov 2019

The user of the carnet ticket has potentially committed an offence under byelaw 9 (2) (passing through a barrier otherwise than in the correct manner).

The off-duty staff member has potentially opened himself to disciplinary action.

The chances of either of these being picked up and enforced are minuscule.

father_jack · 25 Nov 2019

Only yesterday evening I was passing through one for my TOCs stations, there was a wall of people as 2 long distance trains had landed. One gate was defective, the one next to it had a passenger with an 09 error (magnetics unreadable or somesuch). In order for the pair of us not to be crushed I tapped my smart employee pass and took the ticket from him after going through. Valid ticket left next to mobile phone.

Did this break any rules? Being let out of gateline by staff member

gray1404

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