59CosG95
Established Member
The 331/1s are all complete.
331003, and 331021-331031 have yet to be delivered; 331020 was the most recent delivery.
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Northern Class 331: Construction/Introduction Updates
- Thread starter BMIFlyer
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331003, and 331021-331031 have yet to be delivered; 331020 was the most recent delivery.
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Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
What problems affect 331003 to make it being delivered out of numerical sequence?
LOL The Irony
On Moderation
IIRC it was used for testing by CAF.
Sleeperwaking
Member
- Joined
- 20 Oct 2018
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Firstly, he doesn't say it particularly happens when raising / lowering pantographs. He says that "it is most severe with the pantograph up but when the traction package is taking only power for the auxiliary systems".
Secondly, the Class 385s have been in service since July 2018. The Class 331 1710 MTIN is for Period 6 (18 Aug - 19 Sep 2019), for a fleet which started service on 1st July 2019. You cannot expect figures for a fleet in its 2nd month of service (with 6 units doing ~ 4000 miles each) to be comparable with a fleet with over a year in service (with 65 units doing ~ 11000 miles each).
superkev
Established Member
Point taken but apart from the windscreen problem the 385s worked well "right out of the box".
I'm sure the CAF trains can be made to work eventually once the wipers, ASDO, doors, and software and hopefully the appalling ride are sorted out.
Re the banging and bumping emitting from the bogies its interesting that someone reported on here the similar 397s were superb but I've seen reviews of the CAF sleepers mentioning lots of suspension noise.
K
The 331s do funky things to the AC voltage and shape including trying to rectify it when the voltage is high and putting the voltage out of approved ranges for other new rolling stock (inc the 92 with new (current spec) ABB electrical gear that has software to stop it taking power when the supply is outside spec ranges which have got slightley stricter).
710 had similar software enforced supply voltage out of range issues at night on the NLL (31kV) and the infamous 700 frequency oops moment where they put the wrong values in the software and couldn't reset. At least the 92 are resettable! Increasing the local power draw also help solve the CAF issues e.g. 2x 92 at Peston trying to take load sorted issues when they have occurred.
Time for new 4QCs or software...
CAF have recently started making their own traction electronics instead of buying from ABB.
Sleeperwaking
Member
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- 166
I'm not sure what you're trying to say here? Also, I'm not aware of any situation which was resolved by an additional Class 92.
The arrival of the 2nd sleeper on the first problem night and the additional load was though to be a factor in resolving the situation.
superkev
Established Member
I assume you mean the 331s and 397s have CAFs own traction electronics tather than that future builds will.
K
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
Although according to the CAF site, the traction packages are from Traktionssysteme Austria (TSA).
According to the TSA site, they have some involvement with the Class 80x electrics too.
https://tsa.at/en
Yes they have CAF's electronics
It’s a bit vague to be talking about "traction electronics", though. What element are we talking about ? Traction motors ? Traction converters ? Transformers ? Drives ? Auxiliary converters ? Traction control ?
On one train each one of these elements could be built by a different supplier, so one should be more specific when talking about "electronics".
I’m not sure CAF will start wandering around in traction motor designing and building when even Bombardier doesn’t make all the motors for all their products.
The motors of the 331 and 397 at startup sound the same as those on the Auckland (NZ) AM Class EMUs, and these are equipped with Mitsubishi traction motors, so it wouldn’t surprise me if this was also the case for the 331s and the 397s.
On one train each one of these elements could be built by a different supplier, so one should be more specific when talking about "electronics".
I’m not sure CAF will start wandering around in traction motor designing and building when even Bombardier doesn’t make all the motors for all their products.
The motors of the 331 and 397 at startup sound the same as those on the Auckland (NZ) AM Class EMUs, and these are equipped with Mitsubishi traction motors, so it wouldn’t surprise me if this was also the case for the 331s and the 397s.
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TSA supply the traction motors.
TSA supply the traction alternator for the diesel engines rafts on 800 and 802, and the new traction motors on renatus 321 and SWR 455s and 442s.
The electronics are CAFs own.
superkev
Established Member
So sad that all the major value bits of new trains seems to be made outside the uk.
K
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
A short one word answer is globalisation.
LeylandLen
Member
No doubt creating many jobs and good for the local community..
superkev
Established Member
Yes but the CAF and Hitachi factories just assemble parts sourced aboard. Expensive bits including the design and motors, transmissions bogies and even the body are made abroad.
In fact I doubt if any high value 331 195 components are sourced here except perhaps the brakes.
Bit different to past times.
K
Bombardier Derby also don’t make motors and other major components.
superkev
Established Member
Yes sadly Brush (now US owned)dont make motors anymore and English Electric (GEC) with its orynx drive where swallowed up by Alstom and manufacturing ceased. I think Derby still make bodyshells and bogies buying the rest in.
Perhaps we need a UK version of the buy American act to stop foreign predators buying and closing our manufacturers. Prob too late now
Getting off topic.
K
I had assumed that Northern would need at least 8 x 331's to the East to replace the 3 x 321 and 5 x 322. Understand from this thread that 1 x 321 is 'stored' and plan was for more to be stored by now. Confused that still only 6 x 4 car 331's reported to the East. Is there a deliberate plan to keep the 322's going for a while longer while introducing more 331's to the West and replacing more 319's earlier ?
childwallblues
Established Member
The other six 331/1 are indeed operating on "the west side". Are there any 331/0 operating out of Leeds?
Bantamzen
Established Member
Although the 331s are to replace the 321/322s, not all 8 of these were used on a daily basis. When all the 333s were available, the 321/322s would operate the Leeds-Doncaster exclusively, with a couple more filling in the Aire / Wharfe triangle services. So I guess in reality 6 331s & 16 333s is (in theory) enough to cover all those diagrams. The same routes were previously covered by 3*321 & 16*333 before the 322s landed, albeit with a few less peak services.
And not forgetting that West Yorkshire was originally to get the 331/0s, some of which would have been operating doubled up on the busiest Aire services. So the situation is fluid.
I believe some have been used for training out of Skipton, but I've not seen any in public service. They all been 331/1s thus far.
superkev
Established Member
3 car 331 003 and 012 have been used at some times for training only at Skipton.
Incidentally there are 2 possibly 3 class 333s out of service at the moment. 333 009 at Derby RTC with underftame cracking, 333 004)l at Holbeck for interior refresh and reported on here somewhere one possibly parked up at Skipton.
K
Bantamzen
Established Member
Yeah, isn't that 333 005 that was reported stuck up at Skipton? Anybody know if it is still there & why?
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