Do drivers know if a VIP is on board their train?

shakey1961 · 24 Nov 2019

I just saw Boris is getting the train from Euston to Birmingham and made a guess he's on 9G06. That made me wonder, do the driver and train staff know if they have a VIP on board or not? Sometimes the Queen takes a scheduled service to Norfolk.

Or would the driver not want to know if a VIP was on board?

Would you be extra vigilant when operating and in control of the train? Not suggesting for one minute you wouldn't be with just the general public.

Just curious.

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irish_rail · 24 Nov 2019

Yes , B*ris was on a train from Newton abbot to Paddington a while back and the driver had a manager with her in the cab throughout.

Mag_seven · 24 Nov 2019

irish_rail said:
Yes , B*ris was on a train from Newton abbot to Paddington a while back and the driver had a manager with her in the cab throughout.

So VIPs do get "special treatment" then.

shakey1961 · 24 Nov 2019

I suppose they try and get the signals sorted so as to keep any delays to a minimum too?

High Dyke · 24 Nov 2019

Mag_seven said:
So VIPs do get "special treatment" then.

The politicians should be made to stand. Then they might truly understand what regular passengers tolerate on the rail network.

Economist · 24 Nov 2019

Personally, I think that any ministers/shadow ministers/civil servants with a transport/rail brief should be issued with cab passes and be strongly encouraged to do the occasional cab-ride. No DMs/DSMs, just the driver and whoever it is, all discussion done on Chatham House Rules. The politicians would learn more from that than they would from a week of meetings. They should also do site visits to signal boxes, engineering etc. again, no-one else around, just the visitor and the operational staff.

1e10 · 24 Nov 2019

Economist said:
Personally, I think that any ministers/shadow ministers/civil servants with a transport/rail brief should be issued with cab passes and be strongly encouraged to do the occasional cab-ride. No DMs/DSMs, just the driver and whoever it is, all discussion done on Chatham House Rules. The politicians would learn more from that than they would from a week of meetings. They should also do site visits to signal boxes, engineering etc. again, no-one else around, just the visitor and the operational staff.

Would drivers also have to return the courtesy and visit the DfT occasionally to see the pressures government deal with?

306024 · 24 Nov 2019

Economist said:
Personally, I think that any ministers/shadow ministers/civil servants with a transport/rail brief should be issued with cab passes and be strongly encouraged to do the occasional cab-ride. No DMs/DSMs, just the driver and whoever it is, all discussion done on Chatham House Rules. The politicians would learn more from that than they would from a week of meetings. They should also do site visits to signal boxes, engineering etc. again, no-one else around, just the visitor and the operational staff.

The driver may not be so keen on your idea! The driving cab isn’t a meeting room for a chat.

shakey1961 said:
I suppose they try and get the signals sorted so as to keep any delays to a minimum too?

Is that not how any train should run?

CC 72100 · 24 Nov 2019

Economist said:
Personally, I think that any ministers/shadow ministers/civil servants with a transport/rail brief should be issued with cab passes and be strongly encouraged to do the occasional cab-ride. No DMs/DSMs, just the driver and whoever it is, all discussion done on Chatham House Rules. The politicians would learn more from that than they would from a week of meetings. They should also do site visits to signal boxes, engineering etc. again, no-one else around, just the visitor and the operational staff.

Difficult to do, as visitors with no operational railway experience will not have their own cab pass, and therefore will have to be escorted by another colleague (likely a manager) who has a cab pass that is endorsed to act as a 'guide' for non-PTS & non cab pass-holding visitors.

PudseyBearHST · 24 Nov 2019

Generally speaking no, unless the guard informs you or you happen to see them on the platform.

grumblingalong · 24 Nov 2019

These things are kept very hush hush, as a guard when transporting both royalty and politicians in my time, I have only been made aware that the day would be any different about 5 minutes before said person appears.

Tend to say hello as they board if they're a friendly type then we just leave them to it, makes no difference, there is a service to be run.

theironroad · 24 Nov 2019

I'm not aware of any drivers being formally notified and I drive any passenger trains the same way for anyone , I don't believe politicians or royalty should be treated any differently and I definitely don't do deference. I try to drive as if I was a passenger and i like a smooth ride, but having said that I'm not responsible for the quality of the track or the cheapness of the train I have to drive.....

The guard may be told and tbh it may become obvious that something is going on if there's a huddle of cops strolling around.

Mag_seven · 24 Nov 2019

There are VIPs on every train -they are called fare paying passengers.

Ih8earlies · 24 Nov 2019

I once had Gordon Brown + his security detail on my train.

I only found out once the train had departed the platform when a plain clothes copper tapped on my cab door to inform me.

(Edit Note, I'm a guard not a driver)

Aictos · 24 Nov 2019

Apart from train crew being made aware of any VIPs, usually the cleaners get told at the depot for example that a specific train has to be absolutely spotless which is a giveaway that a VIP will be using it especially if a section of the train is blocked off.

theironroad · 24 Nov 2019

Ih8earlies said:
I once had Gordon Brown + his security detail on my train.

I only found out once the train had departed the platform when a plain clothes copper tapped on my cab door to inform me.

Anyone tapping on my cab door would probably have received a PA from me asking them to desist. Haven't got a clue who it could be or what they wanted to do.

Ih8earlies · 24 Nov 2019

theironroad said:
Anyone tapping on my cab door would probably have received a PA from me asking them to desist. Haven't got a clue who it could be or what they wanted to do.

I've edited my post to clarify I was the guard not the driver.

Master29 · 24 Nov 2019

I remember travelling back from Penzance where Jeremy Corbyn got on at Camborne. One of the employees came down the carriage and spoke to his buddy that the leader of HM's opposition was on the train. The other guy didn't know either so maybe not always. I only saw him get on the carriage behind me in case anyone thinks I got special dispensation from GWR staff.

I doubt either Bozza or Jezza would travel incognito now though.

bramling · 24 Nov 2019

shakey1961 said:
I just saw Boris is getting the train from Euston to Birmingham and made a guess he's on 9G06. That made me wonder, do the driver and train staff know if they have a VIP on board or not? Sometimes the Queen takes a scheduled service to Norfolk.

Or would the driver not want to know if a VIP was on board?

Would you be extra vigilant when operating and in control of the train? Not suggesting for one minute you wouldn't be with just the general public.

Just curious.

Generally management will know in advance that a journey is planned, although often only a matter of a few hours or even less. Common practice is to send a manager of some sort along, if nothing else just to float around in the background and keep an eye on things - which would normally include advising the train crew.

No real reason to roster a special crew - indeed the train company may not even know which particular service is planned to be used, if indeed it’s planned at all.

There was an occasion where a former Prime Minister used the Northern Line, and although it was known that a journey was planned from X to Y there was no exact timescale known. As it happened they turned up rather early and naturally didn’t hang around entering the station, charging straight in and down to the platform in matter of seconds, and making a dash for a train which was already in the platform - promptly getting caught in the closing doors, which was followed by the unaware driver making a “robust” announcement directed at the person holding the doors open at the back of the train. The operating official dashed up to the cab and informed the driver who the person caught in the doors was, and the look on her face was priceless! Nowadays this sort of thing would probably be all over social media within minutes...

choochoochoo · 24 Nov 2019

Also a fitter normally travels on the train too.

theironroad · 24 Nov 2019

Ih8earlies said:
I've edited my post to clarify I was the guard not the driver.

Ah, ok. Thanks for clarifying.

Economist · 24 Nov 2019

1e10 said:
Would drivers also have to return the courtesy and visit the DfT occasionally to see the pressures government deal with?

I wouldn't mind that, it'd get me out of the cab for a day.

CC 72100 said:
Difficult to do, as visitors with no operational railway experience will not have their own cab pass, and therefore will have to be escorted by another colleague (likely a manager) who has a cab pass that is endorsed to act as a 'guide' for non-PTS & non cab pass-holding visitors.

Personally, I'd be in favour of them getting training on cab etiquette (and possibly PTS) and not needing anyone with them. Also, I think drivers should be able to refuse a visit if they don't want anyone in the cab, or are a first-year etc.

theironroad · 24 Nov 2019

Economist said:
I wouldn't mind that, it'd get me out of the cab for a day.

Personally, I'd be in favour of them getting training on cab etiquette (and possibly PTS) and not needing anyone with them. Also, I think drivers should be able to refuse a visit if they don't want anyone in the cab, or are a first-year etc.

Any decent manager shouldn't really be bringing visitors into a cab of someone who is 1st year as it really is distracting and adding unneeded pressure.

Dieseldriver · 24 Nov 2019

theironroad said:
Any decent manager shouldn't really be bringing visitors into a cab of someone who is 1st year as it really is distracting and adding unneeded pressure.

Doesn't matter if you're in your 1st year or your 45th, you can refuse them access anyway.

Taunton · 24 Nov 2019

bramling said:
Generally management will know in advance that a journey is planned, although often only a matter of a few hours or even less. Common practice is to send a manager of some sort along, if nothing else just to float around in the background and keep an eye on things - which would normally include advising the train crew.

Things seem to have dropped back from former times then. About 1960 the Royal Train came through to the Barnstaple line. The two best 43xx, largest allowed over the spindly viaducts on the line, were sent down to Newton Abbot works and specially repainted green! They stayed like this for some years afterwards. I only heard about it afterwards but apparently they were polished like a mirror. Crews all issued with new uniforms from the stores. A special wagon of hand picked (literally, apparently) coal was sent over from a South Wales colliery which burned like nothing ever seen before.

In the 1960s-70s Prime Minister Harold Wilson had a holiday home on the Scilly Isles, and used to go to/fro on the overnight Penzance sleeper. There was a code word telegram sent to relevant management, and the Taunton shedmaster and stationmaster were both there in best suits in the middle of the night as it thundered through, initially to the surprise of the night staff but they soon guessed. Strangely, there was somehow also always a Warship standing on the shed outlet road, fully prepared and crewed as well. It was never needed.

GRALISTAIR · 24 Nov 2019

Economist said:
Personally, I think that any ministers/shadow ministers/civil servants with a transport/rail brief should be issued with cab passes and be strongly encouraged to do the occasional cab-ride. No DMs/DSMs, just the driver and whoever it is, all discussion done on Chatham House Rules. The politicians would learn more from that than they would from a week of meetings. They should also do site visits to signal boxes, engineering etc. again, no-one else around, just the visitor and the operational staff.

Agreed

1e10 said:
Would drivers also have to return the courtesy and visit the DfT occasionally to see the pressures government deal with?

yes

DarloRich · 24 Nov 2019

I had William Hauge on the same train as me ( same carriage actually Grand Central) when he was foreign secretary and he was very apologetic about the police sweep, sniffer dogs and security men delaying the train slighty

ungreat · 24 Nov 2019

Had a fair few VIPs over the years. Usually you don't know unless its Royal Train duty

dk1 · 24 Nov 2019

Everybody was informed that The Duchess of Cambridge was travelling on the Ni90 last week.

dk1 · 24 Nov 2019

Many of the senior MPs have been aboard my train over the years along with lots of television celebrities. Probably my most favourite was Neil Diamond & his tour crew mainly because the overheads came down ahead of us causing hours worth of delays & they all detrained at Hatfield Peveral onto a hastily arranged coach to the NEC for that nights gig. Whilst waiting the saxophonist gave us an impromptu performance in the car park. We normally get tipped off that someone's travelling.

Do drivers know if a VIP is on board their train?

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