• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

First Trenitalia (Avanti!) WCML branding, naming and livery

Status
Not open for further replies.

TT-ONR-NRN

Established Member
Joined
30 Dec 2016
Messages
10,415
Location
Farnham
I was looking forward to the Midlands, NorthWest, Glasgow and Edinburgh Railway.

Ah well!
What with the state of their HSTs, that would have been more appropriate for EMR...

I really am relieved to hear LMS/R isn’t a thing. The whole this this Railway thing is awful
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

61653 HTAFC

Veteran Member
Joined
18 Dec 2012
Messages
17,624
Location
Another planet...
If the name of the new franchise is, as seems likely, something to do with the word "Avanti" that will have been a very silly decision in my opinion. Yes, I know it's Italian for "forwards" but it sounds like something that a group of first-year Media Studies students came up with. Smacks of a few rebrandings of the past that were roundly panned by society at large: Aviva (Norwich Union) and when the Royal Mail famously tried to get everyone to call it "Consignia". :rolleyes:
 

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
97,540
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
I think the furore over Aviva has gone down, to be honest. Consignia was rather silly, but then the Royal Mail is a rather special case.

I think Avanti sounds good. I doubt the next TOC will keep it, but the requirement is that the brand is transferrable (which it is), not that the next TOC will want to keep it.
 

EE Andy b1

Established Member
Joined
12 Dec 2013
Messages
1,212
Location
CLC
The first of the new staff passes have been released but only show "West Coast Rail" but expire 30 June 2020. So only temp anyway.
 

Mathew S

Established Member
Joined
7 Aug 2017
Messages
2,167
I was looking forward to the Midlands, NorthWest, Glasgow and Edinburgh Railway.

Ah well!
Nice work :D

On a more serious note, I'm pretty confident nobody on here is going to be surprised come Wednesday evening.
 

Chiltern006

Member
Joined
3 Oct 2018
Messages
655
What if the surprise was Virgin were to keep the franchise and they were paid loads if money to say they were going :D:D
 

swt_passenger

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Apr 2010
Messages
31,267
Pendolino is the general name for tilting trains worldwide, but I thought the Voyager name was just for the product, rather than brand?
Thats right, the Arriva XC trains are also Voyagers. They just don’t use the name much in their publicity, but it’s there: https://www.crosscountrytrains.co.uk/on-board-with-crosscountry/our-trains
Back in 2007 there was a load of discussion about whether they could or would carry on using the name, so I emailed them and they confirmed the name is not Virgin’s property.
 
Last edited:

greatvoyager

Established Member
Joined
15 Aug 2019
Messages
2,426
Location
Exeter
Thats right, the Arriva XC trains are also Voyagers. They just don’t use the name much in their publicity, but it’s there: https://www.crosscountrytrains.co.uk/on-board-with-crosscountry/our-trains
Back in 2007 there was a load of discussion about whether they could or would carry on using the name, so I emailed them and they confirmed the name is not Virgin’s property.
Also, aren't 220/221/222 called the "Bombardier Voyager Family"? Which indicates it's a name used by Bombardier and not the TOCs exclusively.
 

adamello

Member
Joined
9 Nov 2016
Messages
230
Also, aren't 220/221/222 called the "Bombardier Voyager Family"? Which indicates it's a name used by Bombardier and not the TOCs exclusively.
indeed

https://uk.bombardier.com/en/transportation/presence-in-country/projects.html

In the UK, Bombardier employs 4,000 people, comprising around 2,000 at Derby including over 400 specialised engineers, almost 1,000 in London, and our Rail Control Solutions engineering and manufacturing facility at Plymouth produces products for the UK and for export.

...
  • 352 Voyagers and Super Voyagers Diesel Multiple Unit cars in operation with the Inter City West Coast and Cross Country rail franchises, and 143 Meridian Diesel Multiple Unit cars in operation on the East Midlands franchise.
 

py_megapixel

Established Member
Joined
5 Nov 2018
Messages
6,645
Location
Northern England
On doing what? Aren't the trains simply going to run in the current scheme but with the new operators logo stuck on in places?
I meant if Virgin was reappointed to run the franchise (I know it was a joke, although in the past Virgin do seem to have been able to claw back franchises which they thought they'd lost)
 

EE Andy b1

Established Member
Joined
12 Dec 2013
Messages
1,212
Location
CLC
AVANTI WEST COAST
a FirstGroup and Trenitalia FS Group Company


Fleet livery list.

Alstom Class 390 Pendolinos
390001 Plain White - No titles
390002 Plain White - No titles
390005 Plain White - No titles
390006 Plain White - No titles
390008 Plain White - No titles
390009 Plain White - No titles
390010 Plain White - No titles
390011 Virgin “Flowing Silk”
390013 Plain White - No titles
390016 Plain White - No titles
390020 Plain White - No titles
390039 Plain White - No titles
390040 Plain White - No titles
390042 Plain White - No titles
390043 Plain White - No titles
390044 Plain White - No titles
390045 Plain White - No titles
390046 Plain White - No titles
390047 Virgin “Flowing Silk”
390049 Plain White - No titles
390050 Plain White - No titles - No Black window banding
390103 Plain White - No titles
390104 Virgin "Flowing Silk"
390107 Plain White - No titles
390112 Virgin "Flowing Silk"
390114 Plain White - No titles
390115 Plain White - No titles
390117 Plain White - No titles
390118 Virgin “Flowing Silk”
390119 Plain White - No titles
390121 Plain White - No titles
390122 Plain White - No titles
390123 Plain White - No titles
390124 Plain White - No titles
390125 Virgin “Flowing Silk”
390126 Plain White - No titles
390127 Plain White - No titles
390128 Plain White - No titles - No Black window banding
390129 Virgin “Flowing Silk”
390130 Plain White - No titles
390131 Plain White - No titles
390132 Plain White - No titles
390134 Virgin “Flowing Silk”
390135 Plain White - No titles
390136 Plain White - No titles
390137 Plain White - No titles
390138 Plain White - No titles
390141 Plain White - No titles
390148 Virgin "Flowing Silk"
390151 Plain White - No titles
390152 Plain White - No titles
390153 Plain White - No titles
390154 Plain White - No titles
390155 Plain White - No titles
390156 Alstom Tech Widnes for painting (release 03/12/19).
390157 Virgin Silver and Red (For re-paint 04/12/19).


Bombardier Class 221 Super Voyagers (to be replaced by December 2022).
221101 Plain White - No titles
221102 Silver and Red - No titles
221103 Silver and Red - No titles
221104 Virgin Silver and Red
221105 Virgin Silver and Red
221106 Silver and Red
- No titles
221107 Silver and Red - No titles
221108 Virgin Silver and Red
221109 Silver and Red
- No titles
221110 Silver and Red - No titles
221111 Virgin Silver and Red
221112 Silver and Red
- No titles
221113 Silver and Red - No titles
221114 Silver and Red - No titles
221115 Silver and Red - Bombardier titles
221116 Virgin Silver and Red
221117 Silver and Red
- No titles
221118 Silver and Red - No titles
221142 Silver and Red - No titles
221143 Silver and Red - No titles


Class ? Bi-Mode (to be introduced)

Class ? EMU (to be introduced)



Updated 29/11/19.
EE Andy b1
 
Last edited:

hexagon789

Veteran Member
Joined
2 Sep 2016
Messages
15,715
Location
Glasgow
It must cost money to strip off Virgin branding and then put it on again for around 600 vehicles, many of which were fairly recently re-liveried anyway.

While it's unlikely to happen ;), would a simple "Virgin" label on each side at each end suffice, rather than re-branding entire trainsets?
 

EE Andy b1

Established Member
Joined
12 Dec 2013
Messages
1,212
Location
CLC
390121 now white - had a door fault on 69221/D door on her the two days ago.

Thanks.
Only about 14 Class 390s to Neutralize now then. 2 per night shift, so should all be done by the 8th December (with 157 @ Alstom Widnes 04/12/19).
 

ashkeba

Established Member
Joined
13 May 2019
Messages
2,171
While it's unlikely to happen ;), would a simple "Virgin" label on each side at each end suffice, rather than re-branding entire trainsets?
Yes but Virgin: Never Knowingly Underbranded.

Also Worst Group like to brand things as much as they can get away with, such as the bonfire of much-loved local bus liveries to be replaced with white/pink/purple.
 

Grumpy Git

On Moderation
Joined
13 Oct 2019
Messages
2,126
Location
Liverpool
All this branding is a nonsense on a public service and just gives poncey "marketing executives" a job. Just spend the money on good engineering practices.
 

pt_mad

Established Member
Joined
26 Sep 2011
Messages
2,960
All this branding is a nonsense on a public service and just gives poncey "marketing executives" a job. Just spend the money on good engineering practices.
I must admit it does seem strange when after one franchise period in some cases, all station signs at all stations are replaced with something with a different font and logo, and rather than vinyl over existing signs, completely new metal signs are fitted with old ones being obsolete.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top