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Uber loses licence to operate in London

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Edders23

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Yes Yes Yes :lol::lol::lol:


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50544283
Uber will not be granted a new licence to operate in London after repeated safety failures, Transport for London has said.

The regulator said the taxi app was not "fit and proper" as a licence holder, despite having made a number of positive changes to its operations.

Uber initially lost its licence in 2017 but was granted two extensions, the most recent of which expired on Sunday.

The firm will appeal and can continue to operate during that process.

London is one of Uber's top five markets globally, and it has about 45,000 drivers in the city. There are a 126,000 licensed private hire and black cabs in total in the capital.
That'll teach them for the use of dodgy practices to undercut the competition
panachw.gif
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and it'll cut the rapes and sexual assaults in half
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Not to mention the ones who book to go a couple of miles up the road and end up 100 miles away after the destination mysteriously changed en route :rolleyes:
 
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Edders23

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It can appeal, and will do, and can operate in that time. It may win.

Also, consider all those who will lose their income as a result.

If they are PROPERLY badged and licensed which many are not they can sign on to another operator immediately the rest can move to other areas where uber still operates courtesy of David Camerons leaving present for poober (& others) aka the deregulation act

the truth is there are a lot of drivers on the poober app using it as an excuse to commit crimes or rip customers off and that is what TFL have rejected them

They will appeal but the writings on the wall Kalinik has flogged his shares as have many of the original investors it is the biggest Ponzi scheme of all time and will eventually run out of money and places to operate London is the latest to boot them out following on from India, Germany,Denmark,France and of course China who wouldn't let them in because they weren't Chinese
 
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Bletchleyite

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If they are PROPERLY badged and licensed which many are not they can sign on to another operator immediately the rest can move to other areas where uber still operates courtesy of David Camerons leaving present for Uber (& others) aka the deregulation act

the truth is there are a lot of drivers on the Uber app using it as an excuse to commit crimes or rip customers off and that is what TFL have rejected them

Why on earth would you use Uber if you wanted to rip people off? You can charge what the app says - that's it. You have to go through the hassle of taking longer routes to do it and you use fuel and time while you do it!

If you wanted to rip people off as a minicab driver, sign up for Bob's Taxis under the railway bridge (as all small and often disreputable London minicab firms seem to be located), only take cash and conveniently never have any change when presented with a £20 note for a £12 fare.

They will appeal but the writings on the wall Kalinik has flogged his shares as have many of the original investors it is the biggest Ponzi scheme of all time and will eventually run out of money and places to operate London is the latest to boot them out following on from India, Germany,Denmark,France and of course China who wouldn't let them in because they weren't Chinese

That is bordering on libellous.
 

sprunt

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If you wanted to rip people off as a minicab driver, sign up for Bob's Taxis under the railway bridge (as all small and often disreputable London minicab firms seem to be located), only take cash and conveniently never have any change when presented with a £20 note for a £12 fare.

And this isn't bordering on libellous? I've never used Uber, have only ever used local minicab firms while I've lived in London and I've never experienced any of these issues.
 

Bletchleyite

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And this isn't bordering on libellous? I've never used Uber, have only ever used local minicab firms while I've lived in London and I've never experienced any of these issues.

No, it's not libellous because it does not call out a specific individual or company. The post I quoted is borderline libellous because it does call out Uber as having a specific issue with this kind of matter.
 

AlbertBeale

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The (uber-driven) massive increase in minicabs in London - especially ones driven by people who (knowingly, presumably) ignore road rules, such as blocking bus lanes and bikes lanes in vast numbers - has made life in central London seriously problematic for cyclists. My day-by-day cycling in central London has become much more dangerous in the last couple of years, with the increase in lawless minicabs.

It's not just uber passengers who have been shown to be at risk, but other road users too.

If they finally disappear it'll be a great relief.
 

Edders23

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No, it's not libellous because it does not call out a specific individual or company. The post I quoted is borderline libellous because it does call out Uber as having a specific issue with this kind of matter.


I have amended my post to use the trades nickname for u know who if it makes you feel more comfortable and as to people getting ripped off there are hundreds of newspaper articles online where people have gone running to the press to complain. Might be worth looking a few up if you don't believe me
 

Puffing Devil

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The (uber-driven) massive increase in minicabs in London - especially ones driven by people who (knowingly, presumably) ignore road rules, such as blocking bus lanes and bikes lanes in vast numbers - has made life in central London seriously problematic for cyclists. My day-by-day cycling in central London has become much more dangerous in the last couple of years, with the increase in lawless minicabs.

It's not just uber passengers who have been shown to be at risk, but other road users too.

If they finally disappear it'll be a great relief.

They will simply morph into Minicabs without the App and overview that Uber provides.
 

goldenarrow

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Despite the popularity of the company, there no getting away from the fact that Uber's priorities lie with the profitability of its algorithms over the safety competence of its drivers. Talk to anyone who is involved with road transport, Uber incidents will probably out number them all.

I remember when Heathrow were in talks with Uber following a number of serious crashes that had occured with their vehicles. The response from the company was one of sheer contempt and insubordination. They are a disgrace to the industry and quite frankly the public deserve better than a Silicon Valley vision utterly departed from reality.
 

61653 HTAFC

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No, it's not libellous because it does not call out a specific individual or company. The post I quoted is borderline libellous because it does call out Uber as having a specific issue with this kind of matter.
A search on Google for "bobs taxis" reveals many individual firms with that name in the UK. Better hope more than one of them operates out of a railway arch! ;)
 

AlbertBeale

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They will simply morph into Minicabs without the App and overview that Uber provides.

The "traditional" minicab firms tend to know (and have more check on) their drivers and the vehicles. Also, the growth of new-style app-based minicabs has meant people switching from buses to minicabs and worsening congestion. So some of the uber drivers working instead for regular local minicab firms would be a step in the right direction.

The notion that uber have an overview is really nonsense. The recent BBC London investigation showed that fiddling paperwork and documentation by uber drivers is rife. If all uber cars had to be clearly branded as such, and if uber were made legally liable for the behaviour of their drivers, that would sort out the problem overnight (and, no doubt, destroy uber's exploitative and dangerous business model).
 

goldenarrow

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Uber will attempt to roll out facial recognition in a bid to quash the decision in the courts. Should be an interesting argument given how unreliable this experimental technology has proven to be with the security services.
 

Puffing Devil

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The "traditional" minicab firms tend to know (and have more check on) their drivers and the vehicles. Also, the growth of new-style app-based minicabs has meant people switching from buses to minicabs and worsening congestion. So some of the uber drivers working instead for regular local minicab firms would be a step in the right direction.

The notion that uber have an overview is really nonsense. The recent BBC London investigation showed that fiddling paperwork and documentation by uber drivers is rife. If all uber cars had to be clearly branded as such, and if uber were made legally liable for the behaviour of their drivers, that would sort out the problem overnight (and, no doubt, destroy uber's exploitative and dangerous business model).

Minicabs before Uber were not the paragons of virtue you make them out to be - I think the platform has shifted and taken the behaviours with it. There has been massive lobbying by the black cab trade to keep their closed shop - I think this has been the biggest influence on the decision to revoke the license.

Don't misunderstand me - Uber does have issues in the business model and some of the oversight procedures, I think that they may be no worse than the cab companies.
 

AlbertBeale

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Minicabs before Uber were not the paragons of virtue you make them out to be - I think the platform has shifted and taken the behaviours with it. There has been massive lobbying by the black cab trade to keep their closed shop - I think this has been the biggest influence on the decision to revoke the license.

Don't misunderstand me - Uber does have issues in the business model and some of the oversight procedures, I think that they may be no worse than the cab companies.

Indeed, minicabs have never been spotless. However, Uber and similar have both increased the numbers of minicabs in central London and also - it seems to me - lowered the average quality of drivers.

Black cabs don't have a closed shop - there have been minicabs / private hire for many years. I doubt that many taxi drivers would agree that their lobbying has had that much to do with TfL's decision - it's clear that TfL is quite anti-taxi these days, from the way it is restricting their access in many places.

And of course there are other societal reasons to dislike Uber, in terms of their attempt to make money in this country but not pay their fair whack of taxes here - like so many rapacious multinationals. That alone is a reason I'd never use them.
 

Bletchleyite

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Uber will attempt to roll out facial recognition in a bid to quash the decision in the courts. Should be an interesting argument given how unreliable this experimental technology has proven to be with the security services.

How good it is depends on the context. Facial recognition is not unreasonable at saying "is this this person" when presented with a photograph. Facebook's tagging feature works quite well and does that - it's only got to check your friends list of maybe a few hundred at most so it just pattern matches each one. That's the thing Uber needs - a simple confirmation. What it's bad at (thank goodness) is taking a CCTV image of a person and going "who is this from the list of 60 odd million UK population" - but that isn't what Uber need it for - it is however what the security services would want.
 

Bletchleyite

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And of course there are other societal reasons to dislike Uber, in terms of their attempt to make money in this country but not pay their fair whack of taxes here - like so many rapacious multinationals. That alone is a reason I'd never use them.

What it has been, though, is a successful disruptor - it's moved minicabs from things you have to phone (invariably having trouble getting understood down the phone potentially in a noisy environment like a pub or club), get told 5 minutes which can mean anything from 30 seconds to an hour, having trouble finding which one's yours, having someone take yours etc, to something you can call quickly from your phone, you know the car details and can see exactly where it is as it approaches, and you pay almost-transparently by card with the driver having no means other than taking a silly route (which you'd notice) to inflate the fare. (Indeed the Uber principle is that the fare doesn't need to be discussed - it will be charged correctly, the driver has no means to do otherwise).

Without Uber (or someone similar), minicab use would still be as it was - a right nightmare.

As for surge pricing that some people seem to object to, it's just yield management, no different from airline or railway ticket pricing.
 

AlbertBeale

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What it has been, though, is a successful disruptor - it's moved minicabs from things you have to phone (invariably having trouble getting understood down the phone potentially in a noisy environment like a pub or club), get told 5 minutes which can mean anything from 30 seconds to an hour, having trouble finding which one's yours, having someone take yours etc, to something you can call quickly from your phone, you know the car details and can see exactly where it is as it approaches, and you pay almost-transparently by card with the driver having no means other than taking a silly route (which you'd notice) to inflate the fare. (Indeed the Uber principle is that the fare doesn't need to be discussed - it will be charged correctly, the driver has no means to do otherwise).

Without Uber (or someone similar), minicab use would still be as it was - a right nightmare.

As for surge pricing that some people seem to object to, it's just yield management, no different from airline or railway ticket pricing.

I understand these points. But sometimes convenience for an individual comes with damage to society as a whole. (Like use of cars in general in London, for instance.)
 

Bletchleyite

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I understand these points. But sometimes convenience for an individual comes with damage to society as a whole. (Like use of cars in general in London, for instance.)

Uber has caused damage to some individuals (by proxy - the drivers have caused the actual damage) but I think it is rather ridiculous to suggest it has caused damage to society.
 

AlbertBeale

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Uber has caused damage to some individuals (by proxy - the drivers have caused the actual damage) but I think it is rather ridiculous to suggest it has caused damage to society.

I would say it has damaged society by, eg, increasing congestion in London, by making it more dangerous to cycle in London, and by not paying its way in terms of taxation. As well as by using drivers who are driving illegally (as per the recent BBC London expose).
 

Puffing Devil

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I would like to see some figures comparing mini-cabs v black cabs v Uber numbers over the years; I would expect the overall numbers to be consistent.

Black Cabs now have phone apps to compete with Uber, as do minicab firms. I expect many Ubers to convert to mincabs if the ban succeeds and problems will continue under a different banner. Google "police clampdown on illegal minicabs" and see the number of historic reports.
 

Howardh

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Well I've just downloaded the app and hope to use Uber in the future; may try them out tomorrow. Clearly I'm not in London, but the care workers who look after mum have given Uber glowing reviews, and with the price of the buses round here I might as well pay £1.50 more and have door-door service.

Must admit though the app from my normal taxi firm has worked fine, although you don't get to know the fare until the journey's over.

Anyhow, if there's an issue with too many taxis then the solution is simple, more buses and trains at affordable prices. Shouldn't be the case where two adults (not using passes) standing at a bus stop will agree to get a taxi instead and split the fare - as it's cheaper.
 

Bletchleyite

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I would say it has damaged society by, eg, increasing congestion in London, by making it more dangerous to cycle in London, and by not paying its way in terms of taxation. As well as by using drivers who are driving illegally (as per the recent BBC London expose).

The Congestion Charge has reduced congestion in London such that it's neither here nor there, and when I cycle in London the aggressively-driven lorries are a far greater concern to me.
 

Bletchleyite

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Well I've just downloaded the app and hope to use Uber in the future; may try them out tomorrow. Clearly I'm not in London, but the care workers who look after mum have given Uber glowing reviews, and with the price of the buses round here I might as well pay £1.50 more and have door-door service.

Must admit though the app from my normal taxi firm has worked fine, although you don't get to know the fare until the journey's over.

You don't on Uber either, it's an estimate, the fare is calculated using a system that is basically the same as a taximeter but on the phone.
 

Edders23

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I would like to see some figures comparing mini-cabs v black cabs v Uber numbers over the years; I would expect the overall numbers to be consistent.

Black Cabs now have phone apps to compete with Uber, as do minicab firms. I expect many Ubers to convert to mincabs if the ban succeeds and problems will continue under a different banner. Google "police clampdown on illegal minicabs" and see the number of historic reports.


Most ubers are classed as PH (minicabs) HMG do publish the data annually

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistic ... gland-2019

Link above just to warn you it takes a lot of trawling to get the figures you want but the best tables to use are the ones which break down by licensing area

Just as a for instance Wolverhampton has seen a 62 % rise in numbers as it has the lowest licensing standards and so is used as a "flag of convenience" licensing council by Uber drivers many of whom work in London, oxford or Essex on Wolverhampton licenses
 

Edders23

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You don't on Uber either, it's an estimate, the fare is calculated using a system that is basically the same as a taximeter but on the phone.


Uber have insisted in several court cases that the app on the phone is NOT a meter
 

Mitchell Hurd

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If I'm honest this is a good thing - I didn't think there was something entirely right about Uber. I know there's a saying 'Don't judge a book by its cover!' but I wouldn't have been comfortable in uber.
 
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