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TFW Stock Shortages

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PHILIPE

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Y Ddraig Coch said:
Llandudno Junction to Chester services

16.25 1D95 & 18.39 1D70 have been cancelled almost every day for weeks amongst others.
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They are both the same unit (158) which detaches off 1309 BHI to HHD then attaches at Chester to 1509 ex BHI to HHD, detaches a Llndudno Jn and works 1D70
 
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Chris217

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anamyd said:
It would be more like 18 Sprinter-Pacer combos (at most 20 by the end of the year) because that's PRM modified!
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Does this mean 18-20 pacer+150 combos and all the pairs on the Penarth Rhymneys.
If not,where are the remaining pacers going?
 
Y Ddraig Coch

Y Ddraig Coch

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PHILIPE said:
They are both the same unit (158) which detaches off 1309 BHI to HHD then attaches at Chester to 1509 ex BHI to HHD, detaches a Llndudno Jn and works 1D70
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Ah.... I see said the blind man. That does explain why it's mainly always these two services are cancelled then. Thanks :)
 
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Cardiff123

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Chris217 said:
Does this mean 18-20 pacer+150 combos and all the pairs on the Penarth Rhymneys.
If not,where are the remaining pacers going?
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From all the TfW press statements I've seen, Pacers are only planned to operate on Penarth - Rhymney.

Of course TfW are still waiting for the 9 extra 153s they are owed, no sign of those appearing anytime soon. And we know all 12 of the 170s won't have arrived by the end of December. So it wouldn't surprise me if Pacers are seen on other routes apart from Penarth - Rhymney after December 15th.
 
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Sion John

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Cardiff123 said:
From all the TfW press statements I've seen, Pacers are only planned to operate on Penarth - Rhymney.

Of course TfW are still waiting for the 9 extra 153s they are owed, no sign of those appearing anytime soon. And we know all 12 of the 170s won't have arrived by the end of December. So it wouldn't surprise me if Pacers are seen on other routes apart from Penarth - Rhymney after December 15th.
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How about for treberbert and Bridgend to aberdere. Im not trying to be rude or bossy but all you talk about is rhymney you seem to forget about the other valley lines to me just saying. 142s also do the 15.10 from Swansea to abergvenny on Saturdays
 
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Caaardiff

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Sion John said:
How about for treberbert and Bridgend to aberdere. Im not trying to be rude or bossy but all you talk about is rhymney you seem to forget about the other valley lines to me just saying. 142s also do the 15.10 from Swansea to abergvenny on Saturdays
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The Rhymney line is said to be the busiest of all Valleys lines and is pretty much guaranteed to be 4 cars on peak services. Other Valleys services do see short formations on peak services which would run the risk of a Pacer being wasted if it's not allowed to go alone.
 
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Cardiff123

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Sion John said:
How about for treberbert and Bridgend to aberdere. Im not trying to be rude or bossy but all you talk about is rhymney you seem to forget about the other valley lines to me just saying. 142s also do the 15.10 from Swansea to abergvenny on Saturdays
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All i'm doing is quoting what TfW's plans are. I don't live on the Penarth - Rhymney line and would love to see more 4 carriage trains and 769s run elsewhere in the Valleys and to Barry/Bridgend via the Vale of Glamorgan, but sadly TfW plan to keep 4 carriage Pacers and 769s confined to Penarth - Rhymney only.
 
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Sion John

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Cardiff123 said:
All i'm doing is quoting what TfW's plans are. I don't live on the Penarth - Rhymney line and would love to see more 4 carriage trains and 769s run elsewhere in the Valleys and to Barry/Bridgend via the Vale of Glamorgan, but sadly TfW plan to keep 4 carriage Pacers and 769s confined to Penarth - Rhymney only.
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Probably have some 150 with a pacer
 
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Chris217

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Why would anyone prefer a boring 150
over a lovely bouncy Pacer hehe

I take it all the incoming 153s will replace 150s and pacers used on non Valley lines services,and those will cascade back onto VL services.
Cannot imagine loads of 153s on the VL services tbh,although I have seen the odd one on city lines services.

Not a fan of 153s either.
 
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PHILIPE

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Chris217 said:
Why would anyone prefer a boring 150
over a lovely bouncy Pacer hehe

I take it all the incoming 153s will replace 150s and pacers used on non Valley lines services,and those will cascade back onto VL services.
Cannot imagine loads of 153s on the VL services tbh,although I have seen the odd one on city lines services.

Not a fan of 153s either.
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There will be 7 X153s required up North allowing 150s to move south. 153s are more a less daily event on the City line.
 
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Sion John

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anamyd said:
blimey! with the 8 ex-ATW ones, 5 ex-GWR ones, 5 ex-GA ones and 4 ex-WMT ones, TfW will have up to 22 153s at a time. Does it (presumably RAIL 890) state which 4 are to transfer from WMT...?

Arriva Trains Wales
Great Western Railway
Greater Anglia
West Midlands Trains
Transport for Wales
RAIL - stylised (no acronym)
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Well not ATW because there the TfW 153s so it dosnet count but that's alot of 153s coming in 2020
 
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Cardiff123

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Sion John said:
I don't think there coming in next week i think 2020
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TfW's plan to get more 150s down south in 2 two weeks for the TT change they have hyped up so much, for 150s to run on the Valleys, is dependent on them recieving GA's 153s to go up north.
 
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Rhydgaled

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krus_aragon said:
The trouble is: if you paired up every TfW Pacer with a 150, you'd have 30 Sprinter/Pacer pairs and just six 150s left over to operate other diagrams; not enough to stretch out over all the services.
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Don't forget the 170s are coming which given there are no weekday frequency improvements (as far as I'm aware) means getting on for half the Pacers can be replaced (50% of 30 Pacers is 15, which isn't all that much more than the 12x 170s). 15 couples (150+143) would still leave 21x 150s for other routes. My understanding of TfW's announcements though is that Pacers would run in pairs of Pacers, not coupled to a compliant unit. Presumably this means the Pacers (indirectly) replaced by 150s could be kept to increase capacity (running 4-car Pacers in place of 2-car) rather than allowing half the Pacers to go off lease.

anamyd said:
It would be more like 18 Sprinter-Pacer combos (at most 20 by the end of the year) because that's how many of TfW's 150s have been PRM modified!
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Good point! The 153 mods won't be completed either and there's no way of coupling the mark2/3 sets to a compliant unit so it clearly won't be possible to ensure a fully PRM vehicle is present in every single train. Unless half the network is closed and replaced by buses.

Cambrian359 said:
Given the problems in new stock introduction across the uk would it not be wise to have a more realistic in service date of 2023-2025 for TfW new fleets with the intention of keeping existing stock on until 2024-2025.
if existing stock gets Promised to other TOCS from 2022 onwards then we could well end up in a serious situation especially if 158s go but ertms fitted replacements are delayed.
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Indeed, this is a concern. To answer the question, the franchise documents published by TfW show the lease end dates for the current fleet as follows:
  • Pacers and mark 3s, Dec 2019 (as we know these leases are now to be extended)
  • Class 175s - 31st May 2022
  • Class 153s, 158s and 769s - 31st October 2022
  • Class 150s - 31st Dec 2023
So, the last of the existing fleet is intended to be retired a full year before the lease start date of the 1st class fitted CAF Civity units (although they will be in operation before that as standard-class-only units, they will presumably need to be taken out of service for refurb to add first class), with most of the current trains going over two years before the new train introduction is complete.
 
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Sion John

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Rhydgaled said:
Don't forget the 170s are coming which given there are no weekday frequency improvements (as far as I'm aware) means getting on for half the Pacers can be replaced (50% of 30 Pacers is 15, which isn't all that much more than the 12x 170s). 15 couples (150+143) would still leave 21x 150s for other routes. My understanding of TfW's announcements though is that Pacers would run in pairs of Pacers, not coupled to a compliant unit. Presumably this means the Pacers (indirectly) replaced by 150s could be kept to increase capacity (running 4-car Pacers in place of 2-car) rather than allowing half the Pacers to go off lease.

Good point! The 153 mods won't be completed either and there's no way of coupling the mark2/3 sets to a compliant unit so it clearly won't be possible to ensure a fully PRM vehicle is present in every single train. Unless half the network is closed and replaced by buses.

Indeed, this is a concern. To answer the question, the franchise documents published by TfW show the lease end dates for the current fleet as follows:
  • Pacers and mark 3s, Dec 2019 (as we know these leases are now to be extended)
  • Class 175s - 31st May 2022
  • Class 153s, 158s and 769s - 31st October 2022
  • Class 150s - 31st Dec 2023
So, the last of the existing fleet is intended to be retired a full year before the lease start date of the 1st class fitted CAF Civity units (although they will be in operation before that as standard-class-only units, they will presumably need to be taken out of service for refurb to add first class), with most of the current trains going over two years before the new train introduction is complete.
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Pacers are staying for 2020 tho until March tho. Damn 175s until 31st march 2022 im more of a 153 150 158 lad i am there mt favs
 
anamyd

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PaulHarding150 said:
Pleasing to hear.

Any idea of the condition? Could they be out and about for the 15th December timetable?
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so only 16 days of guaranteed service as I believe they haven't been PRM modified. I guess we'll find out tomorrow whether the dispensation has been granted.
 
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Brissle Girl

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anamyd said:
so only 16 days of guaranteed service as I believe they haven't been PRM modified. I guess we'll find out tomorrow whether the dispensation has been granted.
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I’m not sure why you think that any decision will be communicated tomorrow, even if it is received by TfW.

I agree that, if the answer is positive, then TfW will want to let people know quickly, particularly given the interest in the subject, but there will still be protocols to go through, such as ensuring that the relevant stakeholders are told first, before any announcement is made.

The whole industry doesn’t revolve around making sure enthusiasts are kept up to date by the minute as to what is going on, whether it be which unit is due to move next and at what time, or where they are going to be stored.
 
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anamyd

anamyd

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Brissle Girl said:
I’m not sure why you think that any decision will be communicated tomorrow, even if it is received by TfW.

I agree that, if the answer is positive, then TfW will want to let people know quickly, particularly given the interest in the subject, but there will still be protocols to go through, such as ensuring that the relevant stakeholders are told first, before any announcement is made.

The whole industry doesn’t revolve around making sure enthusiasts are kept up to date by the minute as to what is going on, whether it be which unit is due to move next and at what time, or where they are going to be stored.
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I didn't claim to be sure of that.

Yes, that's understandable.

I know, I get that.
 
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