njlawley
Member
Comes across as the "it's a Virgin train so must be a Pendolino" mentality, in the same way as Americans often think that "it's a British bus, so must be a red Routemaster".
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West Coast Partnership: Awarded to First Trenitalia
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Comes across as the "it's a Virgin train so must be a Pendolino" mentality, in the same way as Americans often think that "it's a British bus, so must be a red Routemaster".
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flitwickbeds
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15 minute Delay Repay for journeys from 8th December?
Presumably they've got mixed up with the Voyagers.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
To be fair, a lot of people thought when First's ill fated Horizon Trains bid won last time that it meant the Pendolinos would be replaced with rotting HSTs...
I'm sure somebody knows, they just haven't made a public announcement yet. For what it's worth, I imagine that, whilst it probably won't be identical, some form of on-board entertainment will remain.
I was under the impression that all new franchises were to offer 15 min delay repay, so should be the case I think.
Indeed. The article has now been updated to reflect that it is the Voyagers which will be phased out.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
For what it's worth the only thing that changed in that regard when LNR took over from LM (the only part of the service which has remained consistently reasonably reliable, that is) is the wifi network name and the branding. It's still delivered by the same company.
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
For what it's worth, Trenitalia has just won access to the Spanish high speed network via a bid to run services on the HSL lines out of Madrid Atocha from 2022.
They will use 23 Frecciarossa 1000 (Hitachi/Bombardier) trains, in competition with incumbent Renfe and the other preferred bidder SNCF.
They have a 45% share, with private Spanish companies (Acciona/Air Nostrum) the other 55%.
https://www.railwaygazette.com/high...warded-spanish-high-speed-paths/55229.article
They will use 23 Frecciarossa 1000 (Hitachi/Bombardier) trains, in competition with incumbent Renfe and the other preferred bidder SNCF.
They have a 45% share, with private Spanish companies (Acciona/Air Nostrum) the other 55%.
https://www.railwaygazette.com/high...warded-spanish-high-speed-paths/55229.article
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
Some additional comments by Steve Montgomery, MD of First Rail, reported in Railway Gazette:
https://www.railwaygazette.com/uk/a...-plans-for-west-coast-franchise/55223.article
DarloRich
Veteran Member
let the moaning about names and colourings begin. I am very pleased that the name isnt some tiresome attempt to recreate some pretend halcyon day. I even like the colours! I cant wait to see the wine list!
A related question: when are the proposed open operator services due to start on the WCML?
A related question: when are the proposed open operator services due to start on the WCML?
^Is there a thread on the expected coffee yet? I'm cynical but excited by all this, having used VT every day for the last 4 years in the now tiring/failing seats and yellowing/cracking plastic interiors.
DarloRich
Veteran Member
Snap.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Well, XC turned off tilt to save money. I can't however see it happening on the WCML today - but it could potentially happen post HS2 when the south WCML becomes basically a regional express line.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I'd like more legroom per 80x myself. It would be nice to be able to fit all seats rather than just a few of them.
The Planner
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Which one? Grand Central or Virgin's bid? Doubt you'll see Grand Central before May 2020.
DarloRich
Veteran Member
I see there are going to be an extra 263 trains a week, which would include services to Gobowen, Lladudno and Wallsall. Where else would receive extra services, I guess Liverpool could be a candidate for a extra direct services each hour?
Also as I understand non-tilting class 80x services may be ordered. If additional rolling stock was ordered with tilt, would the additional weight nullify the superior acceleration making it a pointless endeavour?
Also as I understand non-tilting class 80x services may be ordered. If additional rolling stock was ordered with tilt, would the additional weight nullify the superior acceleration making it a pointless endeavour?
swt_passenger
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Well that’s been the regular $64,000 question. Does the DfT’s selected franchisee get the second Liverpool, or the upstart Open Access operator who’s been at loggerheads with DfT for many years?
Hmm, difficult question...
No one will know the answer yet.Afaik the winning franchise announcement said a second Liverpool per hour subject to ORR approval didn't it? Bearing in mind the DFT chose this bid as the winner so surely that must give the most weight?Well that’s been the regular $64,000 question. Does the DfT’s selected franchisee get the second Liverpool, or the upstart Open Access operator who’s been at loggerheads with DfT for many years?
Hmm, difficult question...
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
The ORR is the arbiter, not the DfT, but they have to take into account "funds available to the Secretary of State", ie the impact on the resident franchise.
The same issue didn't stop First Group getting open access paths to Edinburgh on the ECML - the loser there was Grand Central.
Although did the DFT published franchise announcement for the WCP include the potential extra Liverpool's in the number.of extra services quoted?
If it did then surely we could read that as a good indication it's the most likely outcome?
transmanche
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Possibly, but other DfT-published franchise announcements included services that have not actually materialised. Such as the Middlesbrough-Carlisle via Durham Northern Connect service: I believe due to the lack of paths.
It probably just tells is that there is government departmental support for the second Liverpool by the franchisee, over other use of the paths.
GrimShady
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Good riddance Virgin. No more silly talking toilets and zaney matey matey marketing. Pity all the Virign brands aren't permanently going.
I think it's "Awesome"
I think it's "Awesome"
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If that's your view than, thankfully in my opinion, it seems you're going to be disappointed, since the MD of first task has said he wants the "quirky" and "innovative" style to continue, and perhaps "move even further."Good riddance Virgin. No more silly talking toilets and zaney matey matey marketing. Pity all the Virign brands aren't permanently going.
I think it's "Awesome"
I have to say I think that's really good news. The vibrant and cheerful style of Virgin Trains has always been the thing that's set then apart, for me, so long may it continue.
GrimShady
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Same management team, same staff, and a brief to continue the same style... I'm not sure why you think the MD won't be around long, but with or without him not much looks like it is going to change from this side of things.
How many MDs have stayed on for long after a change of franchise?
Not a lot would probably be the answer
GrimShady
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DenmarkRail
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Do you think? I always feel that LNER continued with the Virgin style, but perhaps became less recognisable due to the lack of Virgin name. I never noticed any real differences between LNER and Virgin East Coast, only a different name / brand.
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