Northern Delay Repay incompetence!

A couple of weeks ago I got caught up in the chaos caused by the extremely rainy weather (I hadn't realised the extent of the disruption when I started my journey). On the 7th Nov I travelled from Manchester Victoria to Leeds, and then back from Leeds to Todmorden, travelling only on Northern trains and I held a Northern Trains only Anytime Short Return ticket (as I was returning back to Manchester from Todmorden the next day). Both legs of the journey on the 7th Nov were severely delayed. However, Northern have rejected my delay repay claim on the basis that I 'was travelling with Transpennine Express', and have forwarded my claim on to them. This is despite me sending them a photograph of my ticket which clearly says on it 'valid only on Northern Trains services' (and also Todmorden, which I clearly mentioned as being my destination station, is only served by Northern services as far as I am aware). Obviously I have appealed, and I just hope the appeal is read by somebody with a modicum of common sense!!

It seems like since TOCs have started use these automated delay repay claim forms (the ones that have you use a mini-journey planner) that the error rate has skyrocketed. I've had trouble with TPE turning down a claim (which I think boiled down to the computer deciding I went a different way to the way I actually did despite me telling it so) and I know someone else who has been struggling with TfW for a similar reason.

I assume that whichever TOCs have commissioned this ensured that they chose the lowest bidder with predictable results...

Yes, I've had to appeal a delay from Leeds to Shipley which was rejected because I had started on LNER! Just appeal, and someone intelligent (human, even!) will read it and authorise the repayment. IME they were very quick!

Yes the current software used by many TOCs is woefully inadequate.

I don't trust TPE or Northern (among others) to get even relatively straightforward Delay Repay claims right these days.

If they still refuse, the next step is the Rail Ombudsman.

I'm sure many people give up; the value of many claims must often be lower than the value of the time required to write letters chasing the claims.

I'm in shock. I've just received an email from TPE giving me a full refund for a delay on Wednesday caused by the chaos at Lancaster! I suspect they are just allowing any claim as they involve replacement buses. But that is definitely a record response time. I also sympathise with the OP though because I claimed from Northern for a delay on an Advance ticket, and was offered £1.08 compensation because they claimed I should have caught a TPE train!

I had a claim rejected by LNR for a journey from Stevenage to Hereford. The LNR train from Droitwich to Hereford was cancelled causing the delay. LNR rejected and frwarded it to Chiltern because 'Chiltern operate the service to Hereford'.

On the other hand high praise for GTR who manage to confirm claims within a couple of days. Even at the height of last years shambles they were only taking two weeks.

Just had a delay repay claim wrongly rejected by Northern too.

They logged the service for 27th October. I always take a photo of the paper form and having checked the claim for the delayed service was on the 26th October. It was a handwritten note but still clear as day.

Little wonder Northern punctuality is as diabolical as it is when they cannot even read and process delay claims correctly.

Thankfully I can appeal and bring the issue to light. Suffice to say I won't be being particularly polite about it having now inconvenienced me twice.

Not just Northern. I have appealed one with Southeastern where it was rejected when they claimed the journey didn't involve a Southeastern service - when it did and it was their train that was cancelled. Incompetence across many TOCs

ainsworth74 said:

It seems like since TOCs have started use these automated delay repay claim forms (the ones that have you use a mini-journey planner) that the error rate has skyrocketed. I've had trouble with TPE turning down a claim (which I think boiled down to the computer deciding I went a different way to the way I actually did despite me telling it so) and I know someone else who has been struggling with TfW for a similar reason.

I assume that whichever TOCs have commissioned this ensured that they chose the lowest bidder with predictable results...

Click to expand...

Think that was the reason SET rejected my claim recently now you mention that auto journey planner. Obv then time is wasted dealing with my appeal so the cost of the admin is higher than just sorting it out to start with!

WesternLancer said:

Think that was the reason SET rejected my claim recently now you mention that auto journey planner. Obv then time is wasted dealing with my appeal so the cost of the admin is higher than just sorting it out to start with!

Click to expand...

Depends what proportion of appeals the auto system wrongly rejects.
Though I would have thought a flag-up prompting human review every time a non-SE train/station was mentioned might be better for customer satisaction!

30907 said:

Depends what proportion of appeals the auto system wrongly rejects.
Though I would have thought a flag-up prompting human review every time a non-SE train/station was mentioned might be better for customer satisaction!

Click to expand...

which in my case would not have helped them - jny between 2 SET stations on an SET train...

So I suspect a pretty high proportion of cases end up needing review. Unless people just give up?

There's a fair amount of incompetence around Delay Repay in many TOCs in my opinion. I just won an appeal with SWR who had rejected the claim as they couldn't find my journey, even though I had given full details. They conceded, although said that the reason they couldn't find it was because the journey finished after midnight - no it didn't, about 5pm!

I've got an appeal ongoing with Southeastern too who rejected a claim saying another operator is responsible - when it was their train that was cancelled, and it was the first train in the journey. I'll win that I'm sure.

So, I'd just say to people - appeal if rejected.

Another example of Northern's incompetence when it comes to Delay Repay claims.

A few weeks ago I intended to use their services between Nottingham and Leeds, outward to Leeds in the morning and return to Nottingham in the evening. Both planned trains were cancelled due to 'a shortage of train crew' hence a delay repay claim was submitted for each journey for a delay of over 60 mins (as both trains I actually caught were slightly late).

The claim for the outward journey was correctly approved, however the claim for the return journey was rejected as being a duplicate claim (presumably of the outward claim).

I appealed this highlighting their error and explaining why it is not a duplicate claim, and the appeal was rejected - again on the basis the claim is a duplicate, but with no further evidence or explanation as to why they are of this opinion.

I have emailed asking why they believe the claim is a duplicate, have for the third time (if you include the initial claim) explained why it isn't a duplicate, and have requested that they 'deadlock' the matter if they maintain their stance in order that I may escalate it to the Ombudsman.

The mind boggles....

From what i can deduce, the automated systems operate in the following way :
1. Point to Point delay with no connections. system will pay out nearly all the time
2. Could not board due to overcrowding. Any text boxes where you explain this are ignored it seems. 100% rejection
3. Missed connection due to late running of first service if there is still >0 minutes to connect. 100% rejection
4. Missed connection due to late running of first service when the connecting service leaves before your first train arrives. nearly 100% rejection and an entry into the random excuse generator which includes such gems as "you didn't travel" "train was on time" " train didn't exist" "you travelled with TPE (on a route where no TPE trains have ever been)" and others.
5. Delayed on a longer journey (On Time) when you've connected to a Northern service which has been cancelled or delayed. 100% rejection and another word from the random excuse generator. Some more include, "you need to obtain a refund from the retailer" , "we will only refund you 50% of a single journey between B and C (connecting station and destination) as that was the only part of the journey you were delayed on"

More and more operators are taking this approach although i haven't seen such WILD rejection excuses on any others as i have with Northern.