First Trenitalia (Avanti!) WCML branding, naming and livery

Mountain Man · 1 Dec 2019

greatvoyager said:
Yes but they have built pendolinos for several countries was my point.

Many trains on the UK network have international equivalents

RailUK Forums

Mountain Man · 1 Dec 2019

61653 HTAFC said:
. Smacks of a few rebrandings of the past that were roundly panned by society at large: Aviva (Norwich Union)

A very bad comparison. Norwich Union made little sense. It's an international financial company and no longer a localised company. Aviva was a sensible name change

Mountain Man · 1 Dec 2019

SteveM70 said:
One of the many irritations of modern life. At my work if something is broken it invariably has a sign on it beginning “Hi! I’m feeling a bit poorly” or similar. No, it’s a broken photocopier

Ridiculous

(Although I gather some people do like this sort of thing)

Its appalling. Someone dares show light heartedness

Clip · 1 Dec 2019

RailWonderer said:
The new livery's dark green is awful and doesn't suit the sleek lines of the pendolino, it's an abomination, and that logo belongs in front of an investment bank rather than the side of a train and at stations

RealTrains07 said:
I know avanti wanted a logo which was memorable but a triangle just doesnt fit right, especially with a single A next to it

For you, not for everyone else. I quite like it and cant wait to see one in the flesh.

NewSt · 1 Dec 2019

PG said:
You use trainline!

If you buy on the day from Trainline, there’s no booking fee and no reason not to use it.

NewSt · 1 Dec 2019

Ladder23 said:
any idea on when we can expect to see these in the Avanti livery

Should be two fully-reliveried pendolino sets in service on 9th December.

Bletchleyite · 1 Dec 2019

PG said:
You use trainline!

I use the app for on the day e-ticket purchases, as it's by far the best app and fees are not presently charged for same day purchases.

CheshireCrusty · 1 Dec 2019

The discussion on the rolling stock design being adopted by Avanti appears to have focused on the DRMF and DMSO carriages - which with their dark colouring contrasting with intermediate vehicles to me tends to make the Pendolino (at least) look like an HST.

My major concern however is looking at the released materials is that there appears to be highly contrasting vertical banding on the intermediate vehicles with a predominately light carriage colour contrasting with very dark carriage end door bands. I consider there is a danger that this will produce a stroboscopic effect with a train at speed. This is likely to particularly affect people standing fairly close to the train on station platforms or at level crossings and particularly when there is reflected sun.

PG · 1 Dec 2019

Bletchleyite said:
I use the app for on the day e-ticket purchases, as it's by far the best app and fees are not presently charged for same day purchases.

I'm duly corrected, thank you, I did not realise they didn't charge a fee for same day purchases.

RealTrains07 · 1 Dec 2019

I know its a bit early for any confirmation but is it likely or does anyone actually know if avanti will re brand a voyager set?

james_the_xv · 1 Dec 2019

RealTrains07 said:
I know its a bit early for any confirmation but is it likely or does anyone actually know if avanti will re brand a voyager set?

I'd imagine so, It'll be another few years at least before they are replaced.

Energy · 1 Dec 2019

I could see the voyagers having a little rebrand, maybe the A with a triangle logo. I think they are meant to be refurbished but it won't be that extensive.

Mathew S · 1 Dec 2019

CheshireCrusty said:
The discussion on the rolling stock design being adopted by Avanti appears to have focused on the DRMF and DMSO carriages - which with their dark colouring contrasting with intermediate vehicles to me tends to make the Pendolino (at least) look like an HST.

My major concern however is looking at the released materials is that there appears to be highly contrasting vertical banding on the intermediate vehicles with a predominately light carriage colour contrasting with very dark carriage end door bands. I consider there is a danger that this will produce a stroboscopic effect with a train at speed. This is likely to particularly affect people standing fairly close to the train on station platforms or at level crossings and particularly when there is reflected sun.

How quickly do you think the trains go?
Unless you're practically pressing your nose against a train doing 280mph*, I can't see this being a thing (and if you're that close to a train going that fast, you've got other problems...).

*And yes, I've worked that out. To achieve 'flashes' at even 5 Hz, the minimum needed to cause a seizure, according to Dr Google, you'd need a Pendolino to be travelling at ~ 280 mph (roughly 125 metres per second).

TRAX · 1 Dec 2019

CheshireCrusty said:
The discussion on the rolling stock design being adopted by Avanti appears to have focused on the DRMF and DMSO carriages - which with their dark colouring contrasting with intermediate vehicles to me tends to make the Pendolino (at least) look like an HST.

My major concern however is looking at the released materials is that there appears to be highly contrasting vertical banding on the intermediate vehicles with a predominately light carriage colour contrasting with very dark carriage end door bands. I consider there is a danger that this will produce a stroboscopic effect with a train at speed. This is likely to particularly affect people standing fairly close to the train on station platforms or at level crossings and particularly when there is reflected sun.

Gosh how sensitive and fragile can humans be in the 21st Century ??

NewSt · 1 Dec 2019

RealTrains07 said:
I know its a bit early for any confirmation but is it likely or does anyone actually know if avanti will re brand a voyager set?

They'll probably end up with a livery that is the Avanti version of the WMR 323/170 livery.

Rick1984 · 1 Dec 2019

The top of the apex of the triangle seems to be near Creiff

GrimShady · 1 Dec 2019

The livery could be worse tbh. It makes a nice change from all that ridiculous red nonsense. It would have looked much nicer if they had done it Great Western Merlin style which is also what LNER should have done.

Hopefully they'll improve the interiors which is the really important part.

BucksBones · 1 Dec 2019

CheshireCrusty said:
I consider there is a danger that this will produce a stroboscopic effect with a train at speed. This is likely to particularly affect people standing fairly close to the train on station platforms or at level crossings and particularly when there is reflected sun.

Really..?? Wow.

vlad · 1 Dec 2019

PR1Berske said:
Utterly ridiculous.

Passengers aren't that stupid.

Given the number of passengers I've seen who get the Northern stopper between Manchester and Sheffield when they've got a ticket only valid on East Midlands then I can't help disagreeing....

Class455 · 1 Dec 2019

390148 now debranded

cactustwirly · 1 Dec 2019

GrimShady said:
The livery could be worse tbh. It makes a nice change from all that ridiculous red nonsense. It would have looked much nicer if they had done it Great Western Merlin style which is also what LNER should have done.

Hopefully they'll improve the interiors which is the really important part.

Seriously? Merlin is a very outdated livery, basically a green IC swallow... :rolleyes:

GrimShady · 1 Dec 2019

cactustwirly said:
Seriously? Merlin is a very outdated livery, basically a green IC swallow...

Classic colour schemes never get old. Think Cunard or BA.

Bletchleyite · 1 Dec 2019

GrimShady said:
Classic colour schemes never get old. Think Cunard or BA.

BA's livery isn't classic, it's relatively new.

The actual colour set hasn't changed much, but then the colour set isn't the issue people are saying about the Avanti scheme, is it?

GrimShady · 1 Dec 2019

Bletchleyite said:
BA's livery isn't classic, it's relatively new.

The actual colour set hasn't changed much, but then the colour set isn't the issue people are saying about the Avanti scheme, is it?

What issue? I'm merely stating what I would have preferred to see, that's all. I don't think it's refined enough for an IC operator. Looks more like a bus livery.

ashkeba · 1 Dec 2019

PR1Berske said:
Given that the colours of TOCs here at Preston are mostly white or mostly blue, I doubt that a greeny-blue-with-triangle is going to cause the vast transfer of passengers from intended destination X that some people here believe.

Maybe not at Preston, but the big money is to be made on confusion into London.

pdeaves · 1 Dec 2019

vlad said:
Given the number of passengers I've seen who get the Northern stopper between Manchester and Sheffield when they've got a ticket only valid on East Midlands then I can't help disagreeing....

The train colour doesn't make any difference. People will get on the wrong train anyway.

PR1Berske · 1 Dec 2019

GrimShady said:
What issue? I'm merely stating what I would have preferred to see, that's all. I don't think it's refined enough for an IC operator. Looks more like a bus livery.

It's worth pointing out here that you have seen, at most, three mock-up suggestions of the final livery, and have based your entire dismissive response on this. I see that your continuing hatred for all things Virgin has already TUPEd over to Avanti.

PR1Berske · 1 Dec 2019

ashkeba said:
Maybe not at Preston, but the big money is to be made on confusion into London.

I assure you, I guarantee you, that no passenger is going to board a train at Preston having got confused about the livery, and certainly not onto a direct Euston service.

Class455 · 2 Dec 2019

Class455 said:
390148 now debranded

As is 390118. 390104 and 112 however still have Virgin branding
I do hope 390157 remains in service in original VT livery until the final day of the franchise, would be rather fitting if it also worked the final Virgin Trains service.

GrimShady · 2 Dec 2019

PR1Berske said:
It's worth pointing out here that you have seen, at most, three mock-up suggestions of the final livery, and have based your entire dismissive response on this. I see that your continuing hatred for all things Virgin has already TUPEd over to Avanti.

Again I have merely stated my preference, that is all.

Lots of other posters on here who have expressed a keen dislike for the livery "abomination" was one word to describe it. Why not have a go at them?

Nope wrong again, they'll have plenty of opportunity to prove themselves in my eyes.

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