Yes, you’d need an ESTA, but you’d actually pre-clear US Immigration in Vancouver and would arrive in Dallas as a de facto domestic passenger.
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Yes, you’d need an ESTA, but you’d actually pre-clear US Immigration in Vancouver and would arrive in Dallas as a de facto domestic passenger.
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Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Yes. The US, unlike the UK, doesn't do "airside transit" - if you land at a US airport you have to enter the US.
scotrail158713
Established Member
Is there not like one random US airport that does “airside transit”?
berneyarms
Established Member
All passengers arriving into all US airports, regardless of whether they are transferring or exiting, require ESTAs.
No exceptions.
No exceptions.
Tetchytyke
Veteran Member
Qantas have been doing promo fares on London-Sydney/Melbourne for £699, including in a couple of weeks. You've no idea how tempted I was to book for a quick visit home...It's only been 20 years
(The idea of the London-Perth nonstopper gives me the chills though!)
Qantas have been doing promo fares on London-Sydney/Melbourne for £699, including in a couple of weeks. You've no idea how tempted I was to book for a quick visit home...It's only been 20 years
(The idea of the London-Perth nonstopper gives me the chills though!)
I’d love to do Perth in one hop, but will wait for the A350s that hopefully make it to Sydney
Qantas have been doing promo fares on London-Sydney/Melbourne for £699, including in a couple of weeks. You've no idea how tempted I was to book for a quick visit home...It's only been 20 years
(The idea of the London-Perth nonstopper gives me the chills though!)
£699 is not an uncommon Sale fare for Qantas to Sydney or Melbourne, but to celebrate the beginning of their centenary year last week, they actually had limited numbers of seats from London to Sydney and back for less than a third of that.
https://www.qantas.com/gb/en/promotions/centenary-sale.html
Tetchytyke
Veteran Member
Yeah, I noticed just as the last release had ended
I’d love to do Perth in one hop, but will wait for the A350s that hopefully make it to Sydney
I'd love it if I was up the pointy end of the plane, but 18 hours in economy sounds grim. Longest I've done was 14 Manchester to Hong Kong on a Cathay 747. Admittedly that was 20 years ago, and things have moved on with technology, but it really was hideous.
But then I'm someone who'd take a 14 hour connection in Dubai, not a 2 hour one, and book into the airside hotel. Does anyone know if Changi has one?
Yes, Changi has two; the Aerotel and the Ambassador. The JetQuay Terminal also has some private rooms.
atillathehunn
Established Member
I have a feeling the point you're thinking of is that I think Atlanta at one stage eliminated the need to pick up the bag on international to international transits, but the human that travels with the bag will still need to have the ESTA and go through the process.
But I never tried it.
I Googled - yes it appears on a pure Delta itinerary with an international-international in ATL you can have your bags routed through.
But humans don't have the same opportunity.
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Atlanta still does have that system for selected airlines - principally Delta as the main operator, but also Virgin and other SkyTeam members connecting to or from Delta.
The bag tag that's attached at the originating airport should have a coloured flash on it to identify it as a through-check.
The system is meant to be being rolled out to other airports too; I am aware that Miami can cope with it as long as the bag is tagged correctly from the origin.
atillathehunn
Established Member
In an idle moment I was Googling and there were a lot of reports on An Other Forum that it wasn't working well with DL-VS/KL/AF, but this may be a bit out of date now.
Empirically, it worked at Atlanta in August this year, but as I am sure that you agree, the whole situation regarding transfers at US airports, particularly International to International, is a bit of a joke and something of a veneer.
Techniquest
Veteran Member
Thanks for the confirmation everyone, duly noted. I've put in a holiday time request today for October 2020, which I already have advanced plans for but they will be confirmed when the trip is actually booked in early 2020. Exciting times ahead! Where will I end up going? How long for, what will I do there, will I like it, and of course the big question, who will I fly with?
One thing is for sure, aviation will be involved and it will involve either a new country (or two...) or clearing something from my Bucket List. Oh I am rather enjoying this part of the planning stage already!
One thing is for sure, aviation will be involved and it will involve either a new country (or two...) or clearing something from my Bucket List. Oh I am rather enjoying this part of the planning stage already!
dcsprior
Member
The phrase I've bolded is not one you'd often hear!
atillathehunn
Established Member
Glad it worked out. This data is likely a bit out of date so maybe it's ironed out now. Either way, it's a bit of an embarrassing set up that they continue to use.
No love lost between me and American airports. I usually have a better experience in Nairobi...
atillathehunn
Established Member
Thanks for the confirmation everyone, duly noted. I've put in a holiday time request today for October 2020, which I already have advanced plans for but they will be confirmed when the trip is actually booked in early 2020. Exciting times ahead! Where will I end up going? How long for, what will I do there, will I like it, and of course the big question, who will I fly with?
One thing is for sure, aviation will be involved and it will involve either a new country (or two...) or clearing something from my Bucket List. Oh I am rather enjoying this part of the planning stage already!
Enjoy wherever it is you end up!
atillathehunn
Established Member
Looks like Norwegian are cancelling all of their long-haul out of Stockholm and Copenhagen airports from 2020, though I think they will continue at Oslo. Apparently there will be expansion at other European airports. All due to low profitability.
Cannot say I am surprised.
https://www.thelocal.se/20191127/norwegian-cancels-long-haul-flights-from-stockholm-and-copenhagen
Cannot say I am surprised.
https://www.thelocal.se/20191127/norwegian-cancels-long-haul-flights-from-stockholm-and-copenhagen
Agreed, unsurprising. Perhaps they can shift some of the now spare 787s to Gatwick and reduce the number of sub-charters they use, also sorts operating this Summer including the HiFly A380 which can't be cheap even if some of the additional expense gets billed to Boeing/Rolls Royce for the 787 engine issues.
Also some very interesting news with Juneyao Airlines launching Manchester - Helsinki - Shanghai (thrice weekly) and Dublin - Helsinki - Shanghai (twice weekly) next year, alongside apparently Reykjavik - Helsinki - Shanghai (unsure how frequently). The new routes are 'tags' operated in the plane's downtime from their existing Shanghai - Helsinki service. All the routes are going to have the right to carry passengers just on the legs between UK/Ireland/Iceland and Helsinki, served on their new 787-9s.
www.businesstraveller.com/business-travel/2019/11/27/juneyao-air-to-fly-dublin-shanghai-via-helsinki-from-march-2020/
I remember upthread someone asked about widebody services in Europe so here we go!
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atillathehunn
Established Member
While they are likely to get some cash from Boeing, I would imagine it's like getting blood from a stone, and so their immediate cash flow priority, as you say, is likely to end the wet leasing they have needed to maintain their minimum service. This releases quite a few 787s for other airports, though I doubt it completely eradicates their problem, goes a long way to solving it.
Must say this is not a company I am familiar with. Helsinki being their primary route, tnterestingly, they appear to codeshare with Finnair on the Shanghai - Helsinki route. Assume Finnair wants more capacity into Asia but can't get the bilaterals increased. Would have assumed natural competitors. I am also going to assume that this will mostly be looking at outbound tourism from China - Dublin, England generally, and Iceland are popular tourist routes for middle class Chinese. I think they also operate/will operate to Athens - a similar tourist draw.
Another bit of variety at Manchester. You could fly Manchester - Helsinki on the 787 then connect to Finnair's A350 service to LHR then on Iberia's A340/330 service to Madrid where you hop onto LAN's 787 MAD-FRA.
Butts
Veteran Member
If I am flying Business Class (Club World) from Dublin to Orlando via London Gatwick will I be allowed into the Aer Lingus Lounge at Dublin Airport prior to the outset of my journey. It is one BA ticket with the first leg operated by Aer Lingus from DUB to LGW which is one class onboard.
I have no "status" with BA.
I have no "status" with BA.
This is one of those situations which isn’t covered by BA and oneworld general policies, which I’m sure is the reason that you’re asking the question.
To possibly assist, is your ticket revenue or redemption, and do you have a seat allocation yet and/or do you know the fare class for your Dublin to Gatwick sector?
Butts
Veteran Member
It's a flight booked through British Airways as a Business Class Fare from Dublin to Orlando via London Gatwick. The 1st leg is operated by Aer Lingus with a BA Flight Number as BA don't fly to Gatwick. Aer Lingus Flights on the route have no business class - one cabin. The second part is on BA from Gatwick 3 hours later in Club World.
You may be wondering why I am flying from Dublin.....seemples NO UK APD leads to much cheaper fares especially in Business Class where the tax is much higher.
Yesterday my flight schedule was being advertised as 9782 Euros from Dublin Return or £5275 from Gatwick Return. (2 people) We paid around £1500 quid each for the Dublin option in card/ cash no redemption. Do Business Class Fares have tiers like some rail tickets - ie sell the 1st 2 and it goes up to the next level?
That’s all fine and quite normal.
So the question remains: what fare class is your Dublin to Gatwick sector booked in; not the cabin class.
It’ll be a single letter and we’re looking particularly for J, C, I and possibly D.
Butts
Veteran Member
H for the first sector and I for the second.
Officially, the answer is no, I’m afraid, as H class tickets don’t qualify for lounge access.
That’s not to say that it’s not worth explaining to reception that you’re flying in Business from Gatwick on the same ticket, and seeing what they say.
To compare and contrast, under oneworld rules, connecting same day from shorthaul economy to longhaul business would permit you to access the business lounge at the origin airport.
Likewise, in the days when BA only operated a single cabin class domestically, connections to longhaul business granted lounge access at the domestic origin, and this was further codified by ensuring that the domestic connection was booked into a business fare bucket.
There was a further quirk that connections to longhaul BA premium economy were also booked into a business fare bucket, granting lounge access prior to the domestic, but not the longhaul.
Unfortunately, though, Aer Lingus is not part of oneworld (although ironically it was some time before being bought by IAG), and the old BA single-class ticketing protocol doesn’t work with Aer Lingus. As far as I’m aware, then, there are therefore no relevant rules to apply, and so it’s back to H Class ticket rules or the discretion of staff.
Butts
Veteran Member
Thanks for clearing that up. Ironically for the same fare I could have gone via Heathrow on BA itself which does have a Business Club Cabin. I guess Lounge Access would then have been granted. Of course I didn't opt for that due to the hassle of changing Airports to connect to my Orlando flight at Gatwick.
I suppose next you are going to tell me that I won't be able to check in at Dublin using the Business queue and will have to join the normal security line not the fast track !!!
So just to conclude J,C,D or I would have got me into the Lounge on my "domestic" sector
Final thought will I be able to use the BA Lounge at Gatwick on my return from Orlando as I will be transferring onto a similar class flight back to Dublin.
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Yes, for the system to automatically grant you lounge access at Dublin, and without loyalty programme status, the booking class for the Dublin > Gatwick sector would have had to have been J,C,D or I.
Coming back, if you're travelling on to Dublin on a J, C, D, or I ticket then you should have access to the BA lounge at Gatwick. Otherwise, it's no darts per policy, I'm afraid. A Silver card with BA would get you in prior to an Aer Lingus flight that wasn't otherwise eligible, but no guests (which is more restrictive than the normal policy for Silvers travelling on BA or oneworld 'metal').
Butts
Veteran Member
I booked my tickets and Hotel through Last Minute. Com as they had a special offer where you paid 10% upfront and the balance a few weeks before departure (at no extra cost) on Hotel/Flight Combo.
Have they dropped a bollock here as a dummy run on BA puts my fare for the two of us at 9256 Euros on the date and flights on our booking.
That is over twice the cost of our entire original booking including the Hotel.
The days around it are about what we paid but the Saturday's we are in and out have more than doubled.
Can a business fare jump from 863 Euros to over 2000 for the same flight overnight. How many bands of Business Class are there on one fare ?
The Economy Leg is now showing Y and the Business Class Leg D as the selling codes - hope yet ??? I can't believe someone would front up 9 Large for couple of tickets which don't give automatic access to a lounge, yet some 200 Euro special offer in Club Europe would !!
Where does a monolith like Last Minute get their Air Tickets from ?
ps For us it's 100 Euros each to reserve our seats - ie 400 in total. Is there a good chance we will be side by side without coughing up !! It's a 777 2-4-2
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The fare class dictates various basic things about the ticket, but not the fare itself or the specific terms and conditions applicable to it; subsequent letters and numbers making up the fare basis do that.
This means that there is, in practice, an almost infinite number of possibilities for fare levels, and some fares are time-limited or have an advance purchase restriction on them. It’s entirely possible for a fare to expire or be removed from sale, or even a group booking to suddenly hoover up a chunk of availability, such that the best available fare for a route suddenly jumps.
As an example of the range that a longhaul Business Class fare on BA can fluctuate within, you can be looking at £1400 to £15,500 between London and LA.
In your case, matters are further affected by the fact that you’ve been ticketed at an opaque ‘IT’ fare, which stands for Inclusive Tour. This means that the fare is hidden, but behind the scenes will be drawn from yet another wide range of coded options.
There’s nothing dodgy about it, nor has anyone made a mistake; these are fares that are made available to the travel industry to allow them to create packages for retail clients, and it’s part of the overall revenue strategy of the airlines to sell seats, just like BR did with GoldenRail and Superbreak.
Typically, the terms and conditions for IT fares are more restrictive than public fares, although they sometimes have other advantages (like deferred balance payments).
In terms of what those paying the higher public fares are getting for their money, it’s rather more nuanced than lounge access. For a start, there’s a significant likelihood that those paying those fares are doing so frequently, which means that they will have loyalty programme status and get the lounge access door other perks automatically. Or, despite the fare existing, no-one might ever pay it, as for the same or less they’d go direct or via a different route anyway. Indeed, the airline may be deliberately throttling supply on that connection because they want to retain availability for point to point travel on the individual sectors.
With regard to the seat allocations, generally-speaking, there’ll be no issue with you being auto-allocated together, although you may find that there’s no opportunity to move to any other pairs.
The system is also clever enough to know that you’re on a heavily-discounted IT fare, and the passenger who has paid ‘full fare’ is the one that keeps the airline aloft, so they may find that more seats show as available to allocate online, even without status.
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