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TPE Class 397 ('Nova 2') construction and updates

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I see 1S46 completed its journey virtually on time today (+2.5Minutes into EDB after being +5 at Piccadilly).
If it was indeed a 397 per TPE's Tweet. I would like to know how heavily loaded it was - sometimes these Sunday Morning services can be crush loaded!
 
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tpjm

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Are the 397s due to be on the Liverpool-Glasgow service from when it starts on 15th December (I think) or will they use 185s or 350s as an interim measure

Highly doubt we’d see Cl350 on that route. Every possibility of an interim Cl185 as the number of competent crew/unit availability improves through December.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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I see 1S46 completed its journey virtually on time today (+2.5Minutes into EDB after being +5 at Piccadilly).
If it was indeed a 397 per TPE's Tweet. I would like to know how heavily loaded it was - sometimes these Sunday Morning services can be crush loaded!

Some of today's legs ran increasing late, though, according to RTT.
Turnrounds at Edinburgh and Manchester Airport were late as a result, though at least no turning short was imposed.
Of course there are many reasons for lateness, familiarisation being one of them with a new type of train in service.
 

yrreb

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I see 1S46 completed its journey virtually on time today (+2.5Minutes into EDB after being +5 at Piccadilly).
If it was indeed a 397 per TPE's Tweet. I would like to know how heavily loaded it was - sometimes these Sunday Morning services can be crush loaded!
It was 397005 on this run today
 

Steve14

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If demand grows on the line as a result of these trains coming into service, is there anything in their contract I wonder to extend their sets from 5 to 7 or 8 carriages?
 

TP[ineapple]E

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I saw a TPE train pull into platform 2 at York station at around 1705 yesterday. It said ‘special train’ on the front and was carrying people. Any ideas what it could be?
 

_toommm_

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TP[ineapple]E

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sjpowermac

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68026 ‘Enterprise’ plus TP11 on driver and guard training.


I saw a TPE train pull into platform 2 at York station at around 1705 yesterday. It said ‘special train’ on the front and was carrying people. Any ideas what it could be?

Testing of stock on these few runs:

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/N71789/2019-12-01/detailed
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/N71790/2019-12-01/detailed

It won't be a Class 397 though, it'll be the MK5a most likely. At a push, maybe an 802 although I do doubt it.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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Managed a ride on 397 007 today, 1M97 1212 Edinburgh-Manchester Airport, between Carlisle and Preston.
Nice train, terrible ride.
The train is an enhanced version of CAF's 331, with just the same poor and noisy ride.
The interior is really nice, much like a refurbished 185 with a more generous layout, and very similar to a Nova 3.
Even the "poor" seats (airline style with no window alignment) have some sort of view.
But the ride...
The WCML track is as good as it comes, and there were periods of decent running and periods of unacceptably shaky riding - jiggly I'd call it.
Particularly noisy over pointwork, of which there is a lot more around Manchester than there is on the northern WCML.
It's impossible to read in those conditions and an hour or so was more than enough for me, and I'm quite a stoic while travelling generally.
For what it's worth, the worst sections were the straight-ish sections north of Penrith, and again south of Oxenholme.
It seemed rather better when negotiating pronounced curves of which there are many through the fells.
The ride was, frankly, nothing like as good as on the rock-solid 390 I also used today over the same track, or on a 350 or 185 for that matter.

The PIS is the same as in Nova 3.
Initially it was stuck on "This is Manchester Oxford Road, next stop Manchester Piccadilly", but at Lancaster it burst into life with full info, except it missed out the set-down stop at Bolton.
It can certainly accelerate fast out of stations, but it didn't make any dent in the 10 minutes or so lateness from Carlisle, against the 350 schedule.
By Oxenholme we were holding up the following Pendolino.
All 5 coaches were well filled, and nice to have end doors. The toilets looked smart.
Oddly, the carpet throughout was a complete mess of dirt and debris and what looked like melting ice pieces.
I can only think this was walked aboard by passengers during the day from icy platforms, but no other train I was on was as bad.
As a result it did not have the feeling of a brand new train.

Faced with a choice of train, I would prefer a 390 every time, and it would be a toss-up with a Voyager - the 397 has a better layout, but a worse ride.
I really hope First Trenitalia don't choose the 397 for their Voyager replacement.
It doesn't feel like a proper intercity train which eats up the miles while you doze off.
 

37057

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It'll be interesting to see how they ride with wheel tread RCF, unless they've already developed that in the months they've been running around on test / training.

I'm glad they're finally entering service now though and even more so that two extra 350s have gone south...
 

TRAX

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I wonder if those trendy-in-the-UK lightweight inside-frame bogies play a role in the poor ride comfort of recent British trains ?
 

FS-2-11

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I'm glad they're finally entering service now though and even more so that two extra 350s have gone south...
I've seen 185s working to/from Edinburgh again recently - 1M93 (18:12 EDB-MIA) surprising me tonight with the racket it made as it passed. What does that substitution do for seat reservations (i.e. normally being a 4-car 350)?
 

Bletchleyite

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I really hope First Trenitalia don't choose the 397 for their Voyager replacement.
It doesn't feel like a proper intercity train which eats up the miles while you doze off.

Which is interesting, as the Mk5a (on far worse TransPennine track) did feel like exactly that - a proper grown up European train, easily a match for something like the OeBB RailJet.
 

Bletchleyite

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I've seen 185s working to/from Edinburgh again recently - 1M93 (18:12 EDB-MIA) surprising me tonight with the racket it made as it passed. What does that substitution do for seat reservations (i.e. normally being a 4-car 350)?

I thought they weren't doing them on that route at the moment?
 

LNW-GW Joint

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I thought they weren't doing them on that route at the moment?

There was a mix on the route today, with a 185 substituting for a planned 397.
There was also an 8-car 350.
If any 350s have gone to LNWR, and there aren't at least as many 397s to take over, they will be need to offer 185s.
I'm sceptical for the timetable change in 2 weeks if the Liverpools actually start then (2 more units needed).
 

TRAX

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Well my point is the same as yours, hence why I was wondering if there was a link between poorer ride quality and lighter bogies as we find them on 700s and 397s for example.
You’re right in quoting the 220 though, these do seem to put my hypothesis in doubt.
I know. The 220 does, though, and doesn't ride that badly. My point was that generally heavy = good ride.
 

Bletchleyite

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Well my point is the same as yours, hence why I was wondering if there was a link between poorer ride quality and lighter bogies as we find them on 700s and 397s for example.
You’re right in quoting the 220 though, these do seem to put my hypothesis in doubt.

700s have inside frame bogies and don't ride any differently from any other Desiro in my observation.
 

tpjm

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But the ride...
The WCML track is as good as it comes, and there were periods of decent running and periods of unacceptably shaky riding - jiggly I'd call it.
I would say that Nova 3 also seemed to need some “bedding in” when I first got on one during January this year. Pleased to report that particular set is feeling better now. Fingers crossed that the Nova 2 softens up as well.

The PIS is the same as in Nova 3.
Initially it was stuck on "This is Manchester Oxford Road, next stop Manchester Piccadilly", but at Lancaster it burst into life with full info, except it missed out the set-down stop at Bolton.
There’s still some updates to do on the PIS which is why the slideshow wasn’t playing ball. When it was re-registered at Lancaster the Driver used a different headcode (1M99) which doesn’t have a call at BON. This is also the reason why the times were a bit off. Not sure why they made that decision. We were equally as baffled.

It can certainly accelerate fast out of stations, but it didn't make any dent in the 10 minutes or so lateness from Carlisle, against the 350 schedule.
By Oxenholme we were holding up the following Pendolino.
We followed a lot of late services, particularly south of Preston, but we were 8 late leaving EDB due to a station issue. Not sure what was happening but we were ready to go at 1208. Delay code is down as “passenger disturbance” so it may have been on the XC that was blocking us in.

All 5 coaches were well filled, and nice to have end doors. The toilets looked smart.
Oddly, the carpet throughout was a complete mess of dirt and debris and what looked like melting ice pieces.
I can only think this was walked aboard by passengers during the day from icy platforms, but no other train I was on was as bad.
As a result it did not have the feeling of a brand new train.
I don’t believe that train was vacuumed last night because I joined on the first workings of the day and it was already a bit “bitty”. What you’re referring to is rock salt, it’s been a cold few nights!
 

MDB1images

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1M97 was delayed ex Edinburgh as the train had apparently been advertised on the wrong platform so awaiting those passengers.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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I would say that Nova 3 also seemed to need some “bedding in” when I first got on one during January this year. Pleased to report that particular set is feeling better now. Fingers crossed that the Nova 2 softens up as well.

There’s still some updates to do on the PIS which is why the slideshow wasn’t playing ball. When it was re-registered at Lancaster the Driver used a different headcode (1M99) which doesn’t have a call at BON. This is also the reason why the times were a bit off. Not sure why they made that decision. We were equally as baffled.

We followed a lot of late services, particularly south of Preston, but we were 8 late leaving EDB due to a station issue. Not sure what was happening but we were ready to go at 1208. Delay code is down as “passenger disturbance” so it may have been on the XC that was blocking us in.

I don’t believe that train was vacuumed last night because I joined on the first workings of the day and it was already a bit “bitty”. What you’re referring to is rock salt, it’s been a cold few nights!

Thanks for the update. I had rock salt in mind - horrible stuff when it gets mushy.
There were some very odd weather conditions today with the Penrith and Eden Valley area having had freezing fog leaving a lot of rime on the trees, while both Shap and Carlisle were clearer (and warmer).

I remember the very poor ride of the Mk4s when they were first introduced.
Perhaps Nova 2s will tune up with mileage.
 

yrreb

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Still awful. I felt like we had come off the road on a stretch between Edinburgh and Newcastle last time I rode one.
You do surprise me! I haven't spent an awful lot of time on Mk4s but they've always been decent when I have, including the stretch between Edinburgh and Newcastle a few months ago. I've heard about the ride quality of the 397s being rather "CAF-like" but as I only travelled between the airport and Piccadilly I haven't really seen it for myself, looking forward to spending a lot more time on them in the not-so distant future
 

92002

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You do surprise me! I haven't spent an awful lot of time on Mk4s but they've always been decent when I have, including the stretch between Edinburgh and Newcastle a few months ago. I've heard about the ride quality of the 397s being rather "CAF-like" but as I only travelled between the airport and Piccadilly I haven't really seen it for myself, looking forward to spending a lot more time on them in the not-so distant future
Perhaps Network Rails track is in need of a tamper.
The new trains are longer vehicles and it may not be suited to the track Showing up poor top.
Although the ride between Edinburgh and Newcastle by 80x is not noticeably any different to a 91/Mk4.
 

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I caught the 1626 Glasgow service at Manchester Piccadilly last night. Got on reasonably ok and bagged a seat because I was near a door when it stopped. Lots waiting at the departure end of P14 got on coach E, the first class one. I was in D which was standing only by the time the train left, despite at least 5 announcements that A was pretty empty at the other end but no one moved. Platform display showed 5 coaches but said first class was in coach C.
 
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