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Redoubling Cambridge to Chippenham Junction (Newmarket)

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MarkyT

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It's funny you say that. About 12 years ago I knew someone who's son lived in London and commuted to Cambridge 5 days a week (bearing in mind at that time it was always the other way round).

The chances are rare I admit, but I still get surprised by some peoples decision making.
Some people may need to reside in Cambridge, for children's educational, or a partner's employment needs for example, even if they themselves 'reverse commute'. Numbers are always going to be smaller, clearly.
 
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camflyer

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Well that's never going to happen.

I think the airfield redevelopment will happen this time. Last time it would have been classed as Greenfield, whereas under current rules the whole site is classes as brownfield, which is ludicrous.
It's a shame to lose such a good local airport, I've flown in there a number of times.

I'm sure that I would describe Cambridge as a "good local airport" as every airline which has tried to run commercial services from there has given up. The shuttle to Gothenburg only survived for so long as it was subsidised by AstraZeneca.
 

Meerkat

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Splash the cash and move the line to the north edge of Coldham’s Common, through the airfield site and to the North of Cherry Hinton. Removes the two level crossings and can put a Cambridge East station in on Airport Way - serving the airfield, Cherry Hinton, and maybe even as a Parkway for London commuters coming in from the East on the A14.
 

Steve Harris

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I'm sure that I would describe Cambridge as a "good local airport" as every airline which has tried to run commercial services from there has given up. The shuttle to Gothenburg only survived for so long as it was subsidised by AstraZeneca.
Not really surprising when you have Stansted approx 30 mins down the M11
 

trebor79

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I'm sure that I would describe Cambridge as a "good local airport" as every airline which has tried to run commercial services from there has given up. The shuttle to Gothenburg only survived for so long as it was subsidised by AstraZeneca.

I meant for flying into as a PPL and for business flights and training organisations. The loss of airfields to housing due to them "mistakenly" being reclassified as brownfield by J Prescott is of grave concern to the general aviation community. We are essentially suffering a "Serpell" structural change.
 
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Class 170101

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Unfortunately the timetable doesn’t allow it, at least not without dropping a call at Dullingham or Newmarket. But perhaps the new trains will help.

Good luck dropping Dullingham - its already only got a train every other hour.

Its more likely to resort in a longer turnaround time at Ipswich rather than at Cambridge due to Cambridge being busier with trains than Ipswich - though track movements are challenging for both.
 

Neen Sollars

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Time to dust this thread off, good stuff on pages 1,2 & 3 drifts a bit after that. But will passenger services Ely, Soham, Newmarket to Cambridge and return and other more frequent services needed for East West Rail and general demand growth mean this line will be upgraded in the next 10 years? Whatever happened to the proposed Mildenhall development and the rail link into it?
 

Ianno87

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Time to dust this thread off, good stuff on pages 1,2 & 3 drifts a bit after that. But will passenger services Ely, Soham, Newmarket to Cambridge and return and other more frequent services needed for East West Rail and general demand growth mean this line will be upgraded in the next 10 years? Whatever happened to the proposed Mildenhall development and the rail link into it?

Let's suppose, with some investment, capacity is added on the single line to enable 2tph rather than 1tph.

What's the best use of an extra tph?

-Making Ipswich half hourly probably satisfies the most demand (e.g. from Bury St Edmunds) and probably wins the Business Case test
-Going to Ely via Soham probably gives the best 'social' benefit in giving Soham a direct Cambridge link and boosting housing there. But probably needs the single line Soham-Ely to be sorted too to avoid hitting freight capacity
-Reopening to somewhere like Mildenhall has by far the highest infrastructure spens for (probably) lower overall benefits

The rhetorical question to all this is "With finite capacity, what is the railway *for*?"
 

camflyer

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For me the main priority would be to get Cambridge-Newmarket-BSE-Ipswich to half hourly (and an hourly service on a Sunday would be nice). There has been a huge increase in commuter numbers along the line and it often runs at capacity. An hourly service really isn't good enough for commuting - miss your train and you are going to be very late to work.

It does look like this can be achieved with very little - if any - redoubling of the single track sections. However once you add in the possibility of Ely/Soham services then some may be required. Overall, this is a fairly low cost problem to solve. Some redevelopment of Newmarket station would be welcome too.

Cambridge-Newmarket-Soham-Ely would be a useful route. Newmarket is only 15 miles from Ely by road but it can take over an hour by train via Cambridge. It would be quite expensive though so the cost/benefit is less clear.
 

Meerkat

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Cambridge-Newmarket-Soham-Ely would be a useful route. Newmarket is only 15 miles from Ely by road but it can take over an hour by train via Cambridge. It would be quite expensive though so the cost/benefit is less clear.

Would there be a market for racing folk between Newmarket and Ely to connect into Cross Country services?
 

bspahh

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eastdyke

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Not enough to fund a railway.
https://www.westsuffolk.gov.uk/Coun...NewmarketHorseracingIndustryReportSep2015.pdf says there are 12-13 race days per year at Newmarket. Cross Country trains from Ely have 2-3 coaches. With an hourly service, you would be able to get carry at most 1000 people to the racecourse in time for a day at the races.
I have no idea where the report sourced their information, there are far more race days at Newmarket than 12-13!
The fixture list for 2020 shows 33.

Still not enough to fund a railway of course!

Edit: perhaps @bspahh you have mis-read the info.
Page 5 (written 2015) includes:
Newmarket is unique in having two separate turf racecourses each with their own facilities. The July Course and Rowley Mile together stage 39 fixtures between April and November, including many of the top British Flat races. They are attended by 340,000 people (3rd highest in Britain) including 90,000 to the pioneering Newmarket nights fixtures which include post-racing music concerts.
 
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bspahh

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I have no idea where the report sourced their information, there are far more race days at Newmarket than 12-13!
The fixture list for 2020 shows 33.

Still not enough to fund a railway of course!

Oops. The PDF was about Newmarket racecourse but figure of 12-13 race days was for Epsom
 

Meerkat

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Not enough to fund a railway.

https://www.westsuffolk.gov.uk/Coun...NewmarketHorseracingIndustryReportSep2015.pdf says there are 12-13 race days per year at Newmarket. Cross Country trains from Ely have 2-3 coaches. With an hourly service, you would be able to get carry at most 1000 people to the racecourse in time for a day at the races.

i wasn’t just thinking about race days. There is a significant racing industry in Newmarket and it seems the sort of industry that would create a lot of business, visitor, and staff travel.
 

bspahh

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i wasn’t just thinking about race days. There is a significant racing industry in Newmarket and it seems the sort of industry that would create a lot of business, visitor, and staff travel.

The racing stables are spread around the area, so they aren't that close to the station and have easy parking. If you're working in the racing industry, you need to be able to get to and from race courses around the country, and they are unlikely to be convenient for public transport, so you'll probably need a car as well.

The race course is used as a conference centre, but its over half an hour to walk to the Millennium grandstand from Newmarket station. I work in an office which is paying for a shuttle bus to a local station on week days from 7-10am and 4-7pm, but that costs £90k a year.

The racing industry's travel will be helped more by getting a little of the Cambridge traffic off the A14
 

camflyer

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i wasn’t just thinking about race days. There is a significant racing industry in Newmarket and it seems the sort of industry that would create a lot of business, visitor, and staff travel.

Unfortunately it's hard to take a race horse on a train...

I would say that the biggest increase in demand in the area is from people who work in Cambridge but can't afford to live there

The usage of Newmarket station has already gone up by over 50% in the last few years. If there is going to be a doubling of capacity then the station will need a significant upgrade. Currently there are only 2 trains per hour and they are within 10 minutes of each other but 4 trains an hour would mean the station is in constant use. The car park is tiny and since Greater Anglia introduced parking charges the problems of people parking on residential roads has got worse.

The local council have the redevelopment of Old Station building and surrounding land in the Local Plan but it is apparently a "complex issue" as it is all under multiple private ownership.
 

Icky Qualms

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Would there be a market for racing folk between Newmarket and Ely to connect into Cross Country services?

I have often thought that a Parkway type station situated close to the A14 and on the Chippenham -Soham curve woulds be a very good idea which would give Newmarket, a town of 20 thousand a direct service to Ely/ Peterborough for connection to Midlands and North.
Also at the same time the station at Soham should be reopened.

Could also do with redoubling Soham to Ely as well and Coldhams to Newmarket.
 

eastdyke

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I have often thought that a Parkway type station situated close to the A14 and on the Chippenham -Soham curve woulds be a very good idea which would give Newmarket, a town of 20 thousand a direct service to Ely/ Peterborough for connection to Midlands and North.
Also at the same time the station at Soham should be reopened.
Could also do with redoubling Soham to Ely as well and Coldhams to Newmarket.
Good ideas often come with issues :frown:
Even if the land could be acquired, a station on such a curve would be an immediate no.
Much of the land around Newmarket is used by the Racing Industry. Jockey Club Estates have around 2500 acres, training and stud establishments have yet more. The land in question is occupied by The British Racing School so another no.
A new station is already planned for Soham (https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/soham-station-re-opening.195845/).
The doubling of Ely-Soham is a defined project which was subject to feasibility study by NR in 2015.
https://consultations.networkrail.co.uk/ely-to-soham/ely-to-soham-rail-improvements/
There are historic forum threads but the current status is, I believe:
From this work [the feasibility study], we have unfortunately identified that the cost of the scheme would be more than the budget that is currently available.
In order to progress with the scheme, we would need to submit a Transport and Works Act Order (TWAO) to the Secretary of State for Transport, stating that we have sufficient funding. However, this will now be put on hold until the funding can be identified.
Some more info is provided by the Ely Cycling Campaign:
http://elycycle.org.uk/projects/ely-to-soham/ely-to-soham-railway-path/
The operational imperative for the project is likely to become more pressing with time and as such more funds considered. Where that puts the project with others competing for the same funds remains to be seen.
 

gingerheid

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It is of course not all about *to* Cambridge (despite what someone said a little higher up the thread). Cambridge is a great place to live, and to me it's worth paying the extra to stay here even though I'm now commuting to Ipswich!

I would love to see a parkway station somewhere, and a well chosen location could attract passengers travelling from North of Cambridge as well as towards Candide), though at the moment it's a moot point, as the capacity couldn't cope with it.

It was devastating to see NR's lack of ambition for the route. It would have been nice for them to have at least said improvements were needed but they have no money, rather than that all's well for the next 20 years :(
 

Class 170101

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For me the main priority would be to get Cambridge-Newmarket-BSE-Ipswich to half hourly (and an hourly service on a Sunday would be nice). There has been a huge increase in commuter numbers along the line and it often runs at capacity. An hourly service really isn't good enough for commuting - miss your train and you are going to be very late to work.
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/detailed/NMK/2019-12-22/0200-0159?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

See link above, Hourly service from Timetable change on Sundays between Ipswich and Cambridge.
 

camflyer

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I have often thought that a Parkway type station situated close to the A14 and on the Chippenham -Soham curve woulds be a very good idea which would give Newmarket, a town of 20 thousand a direct service to Ely/ Peterborough for connection to Midlands and North.
Also at the same time the station at Soham should be reopened.

Could also do with redoubling Soham to Ely as well and Coldhams to Newmarket.

Good luck if you think the racing industry in Newmarket would give up so much land for a parkway station.
 

camflyer

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Tobbes

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Good luck if you think the racing industry in Newmarket would give up so much land for a parkway station.

If you went north of the A14 J37 towards Fordham along the A142, the land is agricultural, not racing. Nothing to suggest it wouldn't be viable.
 

camflyer

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If you went north of the A14 J37 towards Fordham along the A142, the land is agricultural, not racing. Nothing to suggest it wouldn't be viable.

I wouldn't be against a new station for Fordham/Snailwell as there is a lot of housing planned in the area but the major problem would be J37 itself which is already one of the most overcrowded junctions in the region and would need a total rebuild, especially with the Hatchfield Farm development looking like it is finally going ahead after years of appeals and redesigns.
 

Tobbes

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I wouldn't be against a new station for Fordham/Snailwell as there is a lot of housing planned in the area but the major problem would be J37 itself which is already one of the most overcrowded junctions in the region and would need a total rebuild, especially with the Hatchfield Farm development looking like it is finally going ahead after years of appeals and redesigns.

Very sensible. And some sort of rail link to the Mildenhall housing development is going to be essential.
 

RT4038

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I have often thought that a Parkway type station situated close to the A14 and on the Chippenham -Soham curve woulds be a very good idea which would give Newmarket, a town of 20 thousand a direct service to Ely/ Peterborough for connection to Midlands and North.
Also at the same time the station at Soham should be reopened.

Could also do with redoubling Soham to Ely as well and Coldhams to Newmarket.

The Soham-Ely line was never double, and therefore cannot be redoubled.
 

eastdyke

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Very sensible. And some sort of rail link to the Mildenhall housing development is going to be essential.
Introducing another station to the route is not helpful to running a service.
Noting some distances:
Fordham to Soham about 3 miles, Beck Row to Fordham about 9 miles, Beck Row to Kennett about 8 miles.
Either Soham or Kennett could be developed as a parkway station as long as roads / access and difficult issues around a calling pattern for the latter could be addressed.
 

camflyer

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Very sensible. And some sort of rail link to the Mildenhall housing development is going to be essential.

It may be ulta-crayonism but a line from Mildenhall - Fordham/Snailwell - Burwell - Bottisham/Quy - Cambridge North would be an interesting route. It might even be enough to get me out of my car for commutes to the Science Park.
 

Tobbes

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It may be ulta-crayonism but a line from Mildenhall - Fordham/Snailwell - Burwell - Bottisham/Quy - Cambridge North would be an interesting route. It might even be enough to get me out of my car for commutes to the Science Park.

If the plans to close Mildenhall and turn the whole thing into a new town ("housing estate" hardly does it justice) then a parkway won't suffice and restoring the old Mildenhall branch puts the station in the wrong place, and the line needs to be planned and built before the town, rather than vice versa.

What would be more sensible is a new line diverging north of the A14 at Stairwell heading to middle of the existing runway to serve the new town of Mildenhall and then across to another station at Lakenheath before joining the Ely to Norwich line west of Brandon. This would be about 30 miles from Cambridge - almost exactly the same distance as via Ely.

2 tph Cambs to Norwich via Mildenhall (Cambridge - Newmarket - Lakenheath - Brandon - Thetford - Attleborough - Wymondham - Norwich) as well as 1 tph express via Ely stopping only at Ely would provide a substantially improved service to all the stations on the line, as well as a faster service for the end-to-end flows.
 
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